Richard Bodle Holmes

[mckha489]

Ok, perhaps he was born 29 April 1891.

[Dundee]

I also understand the dispute to his age was due to him being baptised at around 5

That statement doesn't hold water at all.  Why would they baptise children in 1779, 1781 and 1783 and yet forget about Richard.

Debra 

[mckha489]

Perhaps this birth

HOLMES, FREDERICK       VOSSDEN 
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in HAILSHAM  Volume 02B  Page 102

Marriage

Marriages Jun 1874   (>99%)
Holmes    William        Hailsham    2b   134a   
Vousdan    Elizabeth Ann        Hailsham    2b   134a   

Apparently 25 April 1874 at Heathfield
Fathers George Vousden
And William Holmes

1881 Burwash

William b Burwash  age 26  ag lab
Elizabeth b Brenchley Kent age 27
William b Burwash 6

I cannot see them in 1891 at the moment

1901

William Holmes 48  Carter on farm, b Burwash
Elizabeth 48 b Brenchley Kent
George H. Holmes son 13 b Mayfield
Francis 9 b son Warbleton        Frederick?

1911
William Holmes head b Burwash age 57 Waggoner on a farm
Elizabeth wife b Brenchley Kent 57
Henry son 26 b Mayfield Waggoner on a farm widowed.
Frederick son 19 b Warbleton chicken man on farm
Alice Holmes grand dau 8 b Mayfield
May Holmes grand dau 3 b Mayfied. 


the brothers

HOLMES, WILLIAM       VOUSING 
GRO Reference: 1874  D Quarter in TICEHURST  Volume 02B  Page 90

HOLMES, HENRY  GEORGE     VOWSDEN 
GRO Reference: 1887  D Quarter in UCKFIELD  Volume 02B  Page 119

[mckha489]

Marriages Jun 1874   (>99%)
Holmes    William        Hailsham    2b   134a   
Vousdan    Elizabeth Ann        Hailsham    2b   134a   

the marriage cert is on FamilySearch

William's father William's occupation = Farm Bailiff

But the only William baptised Burwash  about that time I can see is the son of Richard and Ann nee HALL  (Richard being the son of John and Sophia nee Russell)
and Richard in both 1871 and 1881 censuses (ie either side of the marriage) is recorded as an Ag Lab.

so am stuck.

Added unless there has been an error, and they put William's name in the father's box by mistake. And exaggerated the Bailiff part.
In which case Fred is not descended directly from Richard who lived to over 100

(I agree about that Baptism Debra)

Added further
The witnesses of the marriage were Thomas Holmes and Sarah Holmes

This is the 1861 Richard Holmes family



1861
Richard Holmes head  33  Ag Lab b Heathfield
Ann wife 29  b Heathfield
Richard son 9 b Burwash
William son 6 b Burwash
Sarah dau 3 b Burwash
Thomas son 1 b Burwash
Sophia mother widowed 67  b Brightling Sussex

[mckha489]

Added

just looking at 1861 Burwash for Williams b c 1853

We have the son of Richard and Ann mentioned above

and William the son of John Holmes an Ag Lab b 1813 Heathfield and his wife Ann b 1823 Burwash. this William b c 1852 also Burwash **

If I remove the year of birth from the search, Still the same 2 Williams

** This William married Harriet POPE 02 Nov 1874 Burwash

[jonw65]

1841 Richard 60 is with a presumed wife Sarah plus Caroline age 25 and 9 mth old Arthur

Burial at Heathfield, 10 Nov 1846
Sarah, Wife of Richard Holmes
Age 61
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6DMS-ZYK?i=317&cat=691091

Only marriage I can see in Sussex is 29 Sep 1809, Salehurst, Richard Holmes + Sarah Mitten
V poor image on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTM3-1VX?i=67&cat=224946

Followed by baptisms in Burwash of Elizabeth in 1810, and Richard in 1814 (father a Labourer)

Baptism at Heathfield, 25 Oct 1840, of Arthur, base born of Caroline Holmes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DR83-PYR

[jonw65]

Burial at Burwash, 18 Nov 1814
Richard Homes, Infant
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DR83-FY6?i=449&cat=215229

[TheSleepySheep]

Hello! I’m think we are coming to conclusion that my line is from Richard 1779s brother John, born 1788.

Mckha I recognised the name Elizabeth Ann Vousdan and checked it on my tree, she’s there married to William Holmes born 1854 descended from Johns line (son of Richard Holmes and Ann Hall)

The piece of paper I was left said William was born 1851 but could this be a mistake?

Their children I have as William, George H, Francis and Frederick (Francis and Fred born same year) which other than Francis would match the original chain right?

Sorry this is confusing   

Thanks again.

[Dundee]

The piece of paper I was left said William was born 1851 but could this be a mistake?

Their children I have as William, George H, Francis and Frederick (Francis and Fred born same year) which other than Francis would match the original chain right?

William is fairly consistant with his age.  In 1911 he is 57, 1901 he is 48, 1891 he is 36, 1881 he is 26.  He was baptised 7 Jun 1854, but I can't see a birth registration for him.

The 1911 census confirms that there were three children from the marriage of William and Elizabeth, and Mckha489 has previously posted the births:

HOLMES, WILLIAM       VOUSING
GRO Reference: 1874  D Quarter in TICEHURST  Volume 02B  Page 90

HOLMES, HENRY  GEORGE     VOWSDEN
GRO Reference: 1887  D Quarter in UCKFIELD  Volume 02B  Page 119

HOLMES, FREDERICK       VOSSDEN
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in HAILSHAM  Volume 02B  Page 102

The enumerator in 1901 has entered 'Francis' instead of Frederick, the original handwriting was probably difficult to read.  They are the same person.

There is a large gap between William and Henry but Elizabeth may have had trouble carrying children to full term.

Debra