Author Topic: Two Elizabeths or one?  (Read 1176 times)

Offline grantl

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Two Elizabeths or one?
« on: Sunday 08 March 20 05:35 GMT (UK) »
I hope I'm posting this in the right place; it's a somewhat unusual request – I'm interested in second opinions on whether the following are the same person:

(i.)  Elizabeth Coxell, born abt 1828, probably Herts/Essex ( https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Coxell-27 ), one of my 3x great grandmothers, via her daughter Sarah Ann White, née Coxell/Coxall. (The christening/baptism and marriage records for Sarah suggest that she was illegitimate, i.e. her father is "reputed" to be a William Miles, of whom nothing else seems to be known.)

(ii.) Elizabeth Coxall, born abt 1825, in Bishop's Stortford, Herts (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Coxall-70 ) – the second wife of one of my 3x great grandfathers, James White (b. 1807, Little Hadham, Herts).

There are trees out there that suggest the two are one and the same person. However, "Elizabeth Coxell/Coxall" (along with other variants of the surname) was a fairly common name in the Essex/Herts region at the time – common enough to dissuade me from jumping to the conclusion that the two are one and the same.

(fwiw) An interesting implication, that will not be immediately obvious, is that if the two Elizabeths are the same person, James's second wife was also the mother of his daughter-law, Sarah Ann Coxell/Coxall (i.e. hypothetically making Elizabeth's son-in-law William also her stepson).
Lee: prob. Buckinghamshire
Chapman: London
Bowen: London (+ prob. Carmarthenshire)
Owen: West Yorkshire
Bradbury: Oxfordshire/Berkshire
Ayton: London (+ reputedly Scotland)
White: Hertfordshire
Wormald: West Yorkshire
Holland: prob. Kilkenny/Laois
Morris: Somerset/Wiltshire
Small: Somerset/Wiltshire
Wood: West Yorkshire
Blackmore: London
Bundock: Essex/Cambridgeshire
Coxall/Coxell/Coxwell: Hertfordshire/Essex
Hardaker/Hardacre: West Yorkshire
Glynn: Galway/Roscommon

Offline rosie99

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Re: Two Elizabeths or one?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 08 March 20 08:01 GMT (UK) »
To give us some idea of dates and places
Sarah Ann Coxell
Baptism 07 Feb 1848
Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire
Father William Miles
Mother Elizth. Coxell

In 1851 Sarah Ann is with grandparents Edward & Ann In Bishops Stortford
HO107/1706 f476 p42

Do you have the marriage certificate of the Elizabeth who married James White as that should state her fathers name.
ADDED The marriage took place 23 Oct 1853 at Little Hadham - Elizabeths father was Edward
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Two Elizabeths or one?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 March 20 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Have you considered whether the Elizabeth who was a second wife might have been a widow, in which case you would need to be looking for a previous marriage to a Coxall and a baptism under a completely different name. What are the marriage dates for the two couples?
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn


Offline rosie99

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Re: Two Elizabeths or one?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 08 March 20 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Sorry Craclyn I should have given a bit more information on the marriage to James White.  The image is available to view on FindMyPast - As I mentioned her father was Edward, Elizabeth was a spinster age 30
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline grantl

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Re: Two Elizabeths or one?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 08 March 20 14:46 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Rosie.

"In 1851 Sarah Ann is with grandparents Edward & Ann In Bishops Stortford..."

"The marriage took place 23 Oct 1853 at Little Hadham – Elizabeth's father was Edward..."

That combination of facts may be just enough to clinch it.

Lee: prob. Buckinghamshire
Chapman: London
Bowen: London (+ prob. Carmarthenshire)
Owen: West Yorkshire
Bradbury: Oxfordshire/Berkshire
Ayton: London (+ reputedly Scotland)
White: Hertfordshire
Wormald: West Yorkshire
Holland: prob. Kilkenny/Laois
Morris: Somerset/Wiltshire
Small: Somerset/Wiltshire
Wood: West Yorkshire
Blackmore: London
Bundock: Essex/Cambridgeshire
Coxall/Coxell/Coxwell: Hertfordshire/Essex
Hardaker/Hardacre: West Yorkshire
Glynn: Galway/Roscommon

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Two Elizabeths or one?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 09 March 20 10:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi grantl, I have ggggfather who also married his daughter-in-laws widowed mother, JO  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline grantl

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Re: Two Elizabeths or one?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 24 March 20 16:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi grantl, I have ggggfather who also married his daughter-in-laws widowed mother, JO  :)

Jo, it was probably very common, especially in that era when people weren't mobile.

For what it's worth, I've read that the invention and boom in railways, around 150 years ago, led to an increase in family reunions – and a boom in marriages to cousins and other relatives :o I've seen evidence of this in my own family.
Lee: prob. Buckinghamshire
Chapman: London
Bowen: London (+ prob. Carmarthenshire)
Owen: West Yorkshire
Bradbury: Oxfordshire/Berkshire
Ayton: London (+ reputedly Scotland)
White: Hertfordshire
Wormald: West Yorkshire
Holland: prob. Kilkenny/Laois
Morris: Somerset/Wiltshire
Small: Somerset/Wiltshire
Wood: West Yorkshire
Blackmore: London
Bundock: Essex/Cambridgeshire
Coxall/Coxell/Coxwell: Hertfordshire/Essex
Hardaker/Hardacre: West Yorkshire
Glynn: Galway/Roscommon