Missing from 1841 census?

[roycymru]

Hi

Wondering if any of you can spot the below people in the 1841 census. In theory should be at a place called Plasbach/Placebach Llangendeirne but I can't find them

William Treharne a "Limer" born about 1771 (was 71 when he died at Plasbach in 1842)

Anne Owen(s) (nee Treharne) (William's daughter) born 12 Dec 1804 Llangendeirne (died 2 Nov 1879 Idaho), David Owens was born 15Sep1807, Llangendeirne (died 16Dec1879 Idaho). They married 03Mar1837 Llangendeirne. They are at Plasbach in 1851 and 1861 and I would think also probably at Plasbach in 1841. They was a daughter Jane Owen(s) age 11 in 1851 and therefore born around 1840 who should also be with them

Regards

Roy

[PaulineJ]

OWENS, JANE       TREHARNE  1840  S Quarter in THE CARMARTHEN UNION  Volume 26  Page 499

Is she the gal at ancestry Llan ddeiniolen, Caernarvonshire?

[roycymru]

OWENS, JANE       TREHARNE  1840  S Quarter in THE CARMARTHEN UNION  Volume 26  Page 499

Is she the gal at ancestry Llan ddeiniolen, Caernarvonshire?

Can't see thst it would be her heritage is definitely Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire

[Ladyhawk]

1841 census. In theory should be at a place called Plasbach/Placebach Llangendeirne but I can't find them

Below appears to be the reference number for 1841 census with address Placebach and the Thomas family are living there I did a quick check either side and can’t see David Owens and family

Registration district:   Carmarthen
Sub-registration district:   Llangendeirne
Piece:   1385
Book:   13
Folio:   16
Page Number:   25

[roycymru]

Thank you for locating this.

This corresponds to the Tithe Map entry from 1848 of William Thomas and family living at Plasbach https://places.library.wales/viewer/4541277#?cv=82&h=942&c=&m=&s=&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fdamsssl.llgc.org.uk%2Fiiif%2F2.0%2F4541277%2Fmanifest.json&xywh=-475%2C1389%2C8043%2C3349

So its a bit of a mystery at present as Plasbach, Llangendeirne is the place of William’s death in 1842 and his daughter’s place of residence when she married in 1837 and the place of death of his wife Jane and daughter Mary in 1822 and 1825 respectively.

[roycymru]

Don’t know if it helps any but it looks like Plasbach was also known as “Van”.

Almost by chance I came across a picture of William’s (substantial) grave at Llangendeirne. The transcription given is:

“In/Memory of Jane, Wife of/Wm. Treharne of this parish, died/Nov.r 15 1822 aged 47 Years/Here Also Lieth the Body of the/Aforesaid Wm. Treharne of Van, who/died Nov.r 21 1842 Aged 71 Years/Also John son of David & Ann/Owens Van who died March 2nd/1853 Aged 8 Years.”

John must be a grandson of William, son of Ann Owens (nee Treharne) and David.

Although Van and Plasbach at first glance being the same place seems improbable, going back through the records I have, in the burial entry for William’s Daughter Mary her abode is called Plasbach Van Issa.

[Talacharn]

On the 1879 to 1887 map, published: 1887, to the east of Llangyndeyrn there seems to be a large house called Lan. It is near a number of limekilns and quarries.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102179747
In Welsh there is no letter V and the word pronounced ‘van’ is written fan. Could this be a mistake in transcription? Also, the word issa, could it be isaf meaning lower? On google translate, plas bach means a small mansion.

[roycymru]

Thank you for this, a definite possibility

Someone else kindly sent me this on the possible translation of the name, with a slightly different interpretation

‘Plas’ is a palace or mansion.
‘Bach’ is small (in this context)
‘Van’ is not a Welsh word as there is no ‘v’ in the language. The Welsh equivalent is a single ‘f’ with ‘ff’ being pronounced as the English equivalent ‘f’!! I think the word in question is ‘Man’ which is place/location with the M becoming an F by mutation and pronounced as ‘van’ in Welsh!
‘Issa’ - again not a Welsh word per se. I believe it should be ‘Isaf’ which is translated as ‘lowest’. Lazy speakers sometimes pronounce it as ‘isa’ which can also be interpreted as ‘low’!
So this should give you something like ‘Small palace/mansion situated at a low point/location’.

[Talacharn]

On later maps, Lan is a small collection of largish houses, so isaf could be the lower house in the collection. I am not a Welsh speaker, so mutations are beyond me, though understand the basics. There must be a transcription issue here, as it will not be Van if written by a Welsh speaker. Lan as a Welsh word, can be translated as; up, bank, side or church. 'Plasbach Van Issa' makes sense apart from the letter V. Is the original document available?