DNA results help please! Chapman/Hirst in Yorkshire

[ryan1591]

Hi everyone,

I’ve just got the results back from ancestry DNA which have confirmed my suspicions of Romany heritage a few times over. I have a 4th cousin called Daniel Smith who is a direct descendant of Wisdom Smith and multiple Boswells and Grays.I also have Boswell matches between 5th and 8th cousins in America. Searched their trees and the links appear to be a group who travelled together from England made up of Boswells, Whartons, Smiths, Grays, Lees and Stanley’s. I also have about 10 common matches with most of these. I just can’t work out who the common ancestor is. I’ve got Cashmore’s (my surname) marrying Boswells and Smiths in Birmingham but very distantly (we didn’t even know of Romany descent from this side they settled that long ago). Which leads me to think it was my great grandmas side who was the most recent traveller. All I know about her is she was born Violet Hirst in Barnsley in 1915, died in 2009,and her dad was called Chapman but don’t have a first name. Her mother was Mary and the trail goes cold there. She married Freddy Cashmore in 1936. Anybody aware of links between the Hirsts, Chapmans, Smiths and Boswells in Yorkshire? Could there have been a name change? Massively appreciate any help as it’s doing my head in trying to find the link.
Cheers
Ryan

[chempat]

All I know about her is she was born Violet Hirst in Barnsley in 1915, died in 2009,and her dad was called Chapman but don’t have a first name. Her mother was Mary and the trail goes cold there. She married Freddy Cashmore in 1936

Where did you get the name Chapman from?  Do you know of any siblings for her?

[ryan1591]

It’s on her birth certificate as Violet Chapman Hirst and her mother is Mary Hirst. She was told her dad was a Chapman but died during the First World War. Strange they weren’t married though. She was an only child but her mother had a brother called William and a sister called Joan (can’t find anything on Ancestry that ties them all together). She never spoke about her family at all and all we know about her before she met my great grandad was that she was a Gypsy and that’s it really. Thanks for replying!

[ryan1591]

Forgot to say the father isn’t listed on the birth certificate, assuming he wasn’t there as he was in France maybe but unsure.

[Ruskie]

Forgot to say the father isn’t listed on the birth certificate, assuming he wasn’t there as he was in France maybe but unsure.

It sounds like she was illegitimate. The middle name of Chapman is quite possibly a hint as to who the father was.

Have you looked at the 1911 census for Violet's mother Mary? Depending on who she was living with you might get some insight into her family.

[ryan1591]

That’s what we thought, I have looked for a Mary Hirst in the 1911 and 1901 census but without any date of birth or any context it’s nigh on impossible to know for sure it’s her. There’s surprisingly a lot of them! The Smiths I’m related to through dna are in West Yorkshire and York so possibly moved to Barnsley which throws it off. Just thought I’d check on here if Chapman or Hirst we’re Gypsy names in the area for a start as I’m just at a loss with her. I traced Cashmore back to 1600 yet I can’t get anywhere with this

[Ruskie]

Maybe add the surnames Chapman and Hirst into the subject heading which may attract the attention of anyone with knowledge of Gypsy surnames.

Just a general thought regarding your DNA matches .... it could be that the matches come down the female line so their surname would have changed when they married.

If you can test someone on your great grandmother's side of the family, then compare their results with yours to see who your mutual matches are, it might help.

Do you have Violet's 1936 marriage certificate? If so, did she give a father's name?

[ryan1591]

My Dads cousin did the Ancestry DNA (Violets granddaughter) and she has the same matches but we don’t know anyone from the Hirst side of the family to ask unfortunately. It doesn’t have a father on there either, just Mary. Again, very frustrating! I am positive it is her that is the link though. Maybe the illegitimate situation has clouded it all?

[Ruskie]

That sounds a feasible theory. 

To make any DNA family matches you really need that paper trail to see where everyone fits in to the tree. I think not knowing your great grandmother's lineage is the stumbling block.

Have you asked for help on rootschat to find Mary and her family?