Author Topic: English Trade Marks and Companies  (Read 1114 times)

Offline zenobia37

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
English Trade Marks and Companies
« on: Monday 16 March 20 16:28 GMT (UK) »
(mods if there is a better place to put this please feel free to move it)

Has anyone had successful experience of tracing information about a family business including trademarks from the late 18th / early 19th centuries? I have an image of a business logo but no idea in what year it was registered. I'd love to know more about how the business developed but as far as I can gather I'm not likely to get anything from the TM without knowing when it was registered and I haven't found anything in the newspapers available. Just wondered if anyone has any other suggestions.

Thanks

Offline josey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,828
  • Looking to the past - or the future?
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #1 on: Monday 16 March 20 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Bit of a damper really but as far as I know trademarks & copyright do/did not need to be registered; a small business could devise a logo & only if they found it was being copied would they be likely to register it. I was a sole trader & was told by an intellectual property lawyer that as long as I put 'TM' in tiny font underneath the business name on letter headings no-one else could use the name, but there was no need to register it.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline ThrelfallYorky

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,127
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #2 on: Monday 16 March 20 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Trade directories and local papers might possibly be helpful - but if you publish an image of the logo ( or trademark - strictly speaking they're not quite the same thing, although often now the term is used quite loosely) - on here,  and tell what you know of the area of the country the firm(s) worked in, and line of business, you may find some help. I never fail to be amazed at the combined knowledge of people on here.
(Josey: copyright law probably applied... that little c on a circle)
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)


Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,586
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #3 on: Monday 16 March 20 16:50 GMT (UK) »
Have you seen https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/copyright-records-stationers-hall/

Copyright records and images from before 1842 or, in the main, after 1912 – see the The Stationers’ Company Library and Archives for these
https://www.stationers.org/company/archive
Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline zenobia37

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #4 on: Monday 16 March 20 16:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all. It had occurred to me that just because it says 'TM' by the logo it might not be a guarantee that it actually was registered - I suppose you never know.

The business was an aerated water manufacturers named S & JW Mitchell, based in Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire. The logo is unclear but looks like a man riding a horse that is rearing up, with something that looks like it could be a serpent on the ground in front.

I think it had to be registered somewhere been 1880 and 1910; its such a wide gap that tracing through the trademarks registered fro all those years just isn't feasible, sadly, which is what the National Archives leads me to understand would be the only way.

Offline josey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,828
  • Looking to the past - or the future?
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #5 on: Monday 16 March 20 17:20 GMT (UK) »
Have you tried looking through newspapers on BNA with the name in those years - you might come up with an advert with the logo.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline macwil

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #6 on: Monday 16 March 20 17:34 GMT (UK) »
. . .
 The logo is unclear but looks like a man riding a horse that is rearing up, with something that looks like it could be a serpent on the ground in front.
. . .

That sounds, to me, like it may be a representation of 'St George & the Dragon'
Active links are now (after 13/04/2018) indicated by bold red italics. Just click on them.
The only stupid question is the one not asked

WILSON; Lancs, Lanrks.
BERRY; Lancs.
BORASTON; Salop, Worcs,
TYLER; Salop, Herefords.

Offline Dyingout

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
  • My Father Charles in his hockey playing days
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #7 on: Monday 16 March 20 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Typed in
S & JW Mitchell aerated waters Heckmondwike
On Google images, there is a bottle photo from eBay of one of their bottles.
Definitely St George and the dragon
Search eBay number 402066607454
Dow/Dowe Norfolk and Suffolk
Mulley/Wilden Suffolk
Loome/lombe Norfolk

Offline zenobia37

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: English Trade Marks and Companies
« Reply #8 on: Monday 16 March 20 21:23 GMT (UK) »
thanks, it's the image on the bottle that has set me on this trail. I did wonder about it being George and the dragon although it looks more like a highwayman really.