Sydney Coachbuilders- O'BRIEN family

[blacksmithy]

I am trying to find more information regarding the O'Brien family of Sydney.
I believe the following information to be accurate but would be very happy if it is corrected and added to.  Ancestry and Trove have been insightful but I need stronger links to go back.

My Great great grandfather:  Joseph  O'Brien   B: Sydney circa 1843   
Died: Emerald Victoria Dec 1901.  Headstone has been found.
M: Jane Baggs 1869 in Pitt Street Sydney CoE  by  Mr Bailey!!
By 1896 Joseph and his family moved to the Parish of Gembrook.
Joseph owned a house and 29 acres as part of Crown Allotment 59.  The rates on the property were transferred to his wife and she disappears from the local rate book records after 1905.
The family history emigrate to NZ after Joseph's death ( I have family history from this point in NZ although I am not aware of any shipping records for them as this was a period of massive travel).
There is no reference to who Joseph's parents were on his marriage cert. However his death cert records his father as Joseph and his mother    unknown.  His occupation is recorded as Upholsterer on both his marriage and death certs.
    Joseph's death notice occurs in the paper with a request for publication in Sydney.  The Sydney publication is put in by ‘his brothers John and the late Edward O'Brien Coachbuilder, late of Castlereagh-street Sydney.’

 I think I have linked Joseph's brothers (no sister from what I see) to:

1.    Edward B:  1835 Dublin D:  1897 Freemantle WA     M:  Sarah Brennan and had 8 ?9 children.
2.   William:  B:  ? 1837       D:  24 Oct 1882 (Death notice put in by his brothers Edward John Joseph)
3.   John:     B:  ?                D: 2/03/1917 at ‘Glenora’, Grantham Street West Kogarah NSW.  Death Cert identifies parents as Joseph and Bridget.  M:  Jane   Children:   Francis, Annie, Emily.  Newspaper Death notice records him as coachbuilder, late of Castlereagh street
4.   Cornelius:   B:  ?           D: 22 June 1865, Araluen NSW.  The Braidwood general cemetery has a record of a Cornelius O'Brien – father is Joseph O'Brien, mother unknown.
5.   Joseph: B: ? 1843,1846  D: 1901 Emerald Victoria  M:  Jane Baggs

I am curious about the coachbuilding business Edward, John and Joseph appeared to be involved in as they went bankrupt in 1890 when there was a great recession.   There is also a previous newspaper article about O'Brien, Kerridge and McKay Coach builders of 267-269 Castlereagh Street Sydney.  But this partnership dissolved in 1875 with Kerridge continuing the business, so I am wondering what the name of the O'Brien boys business was when it went in to bankruptcy in 1890.  I am picking that is was about this time that Joseph moved south to Victoria.

I would also like to know more details of William, and Cornelius, where were they born and what did they do.

I would also like to know when they immigrated to Australia.
Hoping someone can help fill in the gaps.

Kind regards and hoping you and yours are well.

[wivenhoe]

Sydney Morning Herald 10 Dec 1901 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14427653?
O'BRIEN -December 8, at Emerald, Victoria Joseph O'Brien brother of John and the late Edward O'Brien, coachbuilder, late of Castlereagh-street, Sydney.


The Age 14 Dec 1901 p5
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/192213070?
O'BRIEN. - On the 8th December, at his residence, Emerald, Victoria, suddenly, Joseph, dearly loved
husband of Jane O'Brien, aged 55 years. Sydney papers please copy.

The marriage certificate, 1869....do you see parents for Jane BAGGS?

You probably have an (incomplete) transcription from the church register to the civil register. The church original would have the missing information.

What church did they marry in.....what names for witnesses.

Does the death certificate give his "years in the colony"?

Can you please list all the information on the death certificate that you have.


"...The family history emigrate to NZ after Joseph's death "
What does this mean?

[Jamjar]

Middle initial M:

3069/1865 OBRIEN Cornelius M father Joseph died BRAIDWOOD

A daughter’s marriage, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article102852352

Possible death of wife. No, she is the 20 year old wife of a James Obrien.

3296/1860 OBRIEN Margaret parents GEORGE and HONORA

Possible marriage VIC:

109/1841 OBRIEN Cornelius to SHEIL Margaret

I can’t see Mary’s birth:

1895/1863 BEAN William to O’BRIEN Mary Ann GOULBURN

Jamjar

[majm]

Hi All,

I am on my e reader, cannot do live links BUT ,  there will be earlier thread with background info.  The 1869 marriage was by a 'marriage shop' clergy who was subject to court actions for a number of his ceremonies. 

Add
SCANT info, and missing clergy registers and possible 'fake' witnesses..


JM.

[wivenhoe]

WA BDM death
OBRIEN   Edward      62Y   parents Joseph /Unknown   born Dublin Irl      953   1897

SMH 24 Oct 1882 p12
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?
THE FRIENDS of Messrs. EDWARD, JOHN, and JOSEPH O'BRIEN, Coachbuilders, are invited to attend the Funeral of their beloved BROTHER, the late William O'Brien to move from his residence, Raglan-street, Darlington, near Deaf and Dumb School, THIS (Tuesday) MORNING.....Necropolis

You might hope that with brothers around that there would be good information recorded about the origins of William O'BRIEN....not so.....

BDM NSW death
3892/1882 O'BRIEN  William  age 45 years  died Newtown

[blacksmithy]

Hi
thanks for your quick replies.  Yes I have tried to get a full copy of the marriage certificate but have been told Mr Bailey destroyed copies of these in the period I was looking for.
Joseph was living at 159 Pitt Street, upholster a bachelor, Jane Baggs was at  34 Kensington Street, Spinister, Dressmaker.  Witness:  W Laughson and Elizabeth Evans.  3 April 1889

Regarding Joseph, my g g grandfather.  Yes he died in Emerald and I have details for this which state he was a Farmer, 55yrs old, his father was Joseph O'Brien, profession unknown, Mother- Christian and surname unknown.  supposedly died of old age (senility), died 8 December 1901,
A constable reported the death to a Justice of the Peace, buried 10 December at Nangana Cemetery by Thomas Kirkan acting undertaker, Minister: J Brodrick CoE,  Witnessed by: ES Gillespie and Peter Rullgreen, Born: New South Wales, lived there 42yrs, and 13 years in the state of Victoria.  Married: Sydney aged 23yrs to Jane Baggs.  Children:  Charles Cornelius (my great grandfather), Elizabeth, Emily, Ellen, Matilda, William (deceased at the time of his fathers death).  I have information on the family once they arrived in New Zealand and settled in Chch, although do not have shipping records to confirm the date of arrival.  I believe Charles came back and forth to NZ before the family settled here. Jane and her children at buried at Sydenham cemetery in Christchurch.

Thank you for the Married notice for Cornelius' daughter, I will follow that up as it provides a 'wife' for Cornelius. 
I have no also found a reference for a possible baptism for Cornelius 27 sept 1828 St Mary's Dublin.  Residence: Purden St.  Father: Joseph O'Brien and Mother: Bridget O'Brien.

Bridget appears to have disappeared!

Yes I did an earlier post for Joseph many years ago but could find no further information on him. I have just picked this family up again and have found Trove to be very useful with new information.

 Many thanks, feeling excited that someone may be able to help me with Joseph ggg grandfather and Bridget O'Brien. 

[wivenhoe]

This marriage certificate, 1858, would record parents' names, birth place of bride and groom

12/1858 O'BRIEN  Cornelius   marr.   CHISLETT        Elizabeth   @  Sydney

parents of this Isabella -

Ancestry Anglican Parish Registers
31 Mar 1882 St Peters Woolloomooloo
O'BRIEN Isabella    marr.   HOWARD Thomas Walter

witnesses Joseph O'BRIEN, Evan O'BRIEN

[maddys52]

Hi All,

I am on my e reader, cannot do live links BUT ,  there will be earlier thread with background info.  The 1869 marriage was by a 'marriage shop' clergy who was subject to court actions for a number of his ceremonies. 

Add
SCANT info, and missing clergy registers and possible 'fake' witnesses..


JM.

Just for info:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=704201.msg5471522#msg5471522

Modified to add:
Just because it's interesting!
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752412.msg6009960#msg6009960

[Jamjar]

1895/1863 BEAN William to O’BRIEN Mary Ann GOULBURN

Little Beans:

8507/1864 William

6316/1866 Elizabeth M

18492/1868 Ann

19764/1871 George J died 19 June 1916 of appendicitis, 2nd column:

9283/1876 Eda

27867/1880 Thomas

Jamjar