Author Topic: Hobson of Great Glen and London?  (Read 1156 times)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Hobson of Great Glen and London?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 03 April 21 12:27 BST (UK) »
The Hobson family of Marylebone Park are then shown in the Visitation of Sussex using the same if not similar crest to what the Hobson family of Glen list on their pedigree. They are not using the griffin but a Leopards face frontee whereas the Hobsons of Glen use a Lions face frontee.

In Heraldry, lions and leopards are virtually indistinguishable.

E.G. the badge on the shirts of then England football team show 3 leopards, but they are almost always referred to as 3 lions :D
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Offline MaecW

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Re: Hobson of Great Glen and London?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 03 April 21 12:42 BST (UK) »
I have no knowledge of these two families but, to answer the original question, yes, the two coats of arms do suggest a close relationship as they are only differenced by the design of the portion "in chief".
Belgraveshed is not quite right in saying "With regard to similar but different coats of arms - these only relate to an individual not a family. If passed on to the next generation then the recipient would have to change some element of it to make it different." . The original Arms would descend to the eldest son undifferenced, whilst other sons would difference their version. This is what may have happened in this case but, if so, which line is the "original" could be hard to discover.
On the other hand, heraldry was not particularly well controlled in England at this time and it is possible that one party has merely adopted similar arms from a family of the same name !
A quick look at Burke's General Armory, unreliable though it is (!), shows a series of Hopson families have similar Arms - 'Ar. on a chev. az. betw. three torteaux' (or variants)  and then various charges which might suggest a common origins with your Hobsons. You may need to go back earlier to find the common ground !   Good hunting !

Maec
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Offline MrDudley

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Re: Hobson of Great Glen and London?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 03 April 21 13:09 BST (UK) »
From What I can make out (The Great Glen registers are quite bad and very faded in places and the scribe wasn't the neatest)

This is Thomas Hobson the Younger's children with wife Elizabeth (I cant find a marriage)
Elizabeth 1673 Great Glen.
Thomas 1679 Great Glen.
Elizabeth 1682 Great Glen.
*William Hobson of Glen who marries Mary Smith*
John 1686 Great Glen.
Grace 1689 Great Glen.
Isabel 1692 Great Glen.
Ann 1697 Great Glen.
I believe that William Hobson who marries Mary Smith is a son of Thomas the Younger but his baptism has been lost in the records (Great Glen registers fairly bad in the late 1600s). Likely he was born between 1682 and 1686.

Thomas Hobson the Younger dies 1727 and has a will where he mentions his grandson Thomas, son of his lately deceased son William (Who died in 1712) and his daughters and their husbands (He is now called Senior in the Register and on his will because Thomas the Elder died in 1719 and he is now the oldest Thomas Hobson in the village. His grandson Thomas, son of his deceased son William is the youngest, because after Thomas the Younger dies in 1727, Thomas Hobson, son of Thomas the Elder becomes the Senior Thomas Hobson as per his will in 1749)

I'm not sure who Thomas the Younger's father is but I fairly sure it is the William Hobson of Glen who dies in 1682. This William was, I think the brother of Robert Hobson and Uncle of Thomas Hobson the Elder. He was also married to a Grace (One of Thomas the Youngers daughters are called Grace) The Great Glen registers are missing for this period of the 1650s/1660s.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Edmund Read of Sutton. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
John Brewin of Stretton Parva. Gent
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall, Gent


Offline MrDudley

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Re: Hobson of Great Glen and London?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 03 April 21 13:37 BST (UK) »
I have no knowledge of these two families but, to answer the original question, yes, the two coats of arms do suggest a close relationship as they are only differenced by the design of the portion "in chief".
Belgraveshed is not quite right in saying "With regard to similar but different coats of arms - these only relate to an individual not a family. If passed on to the next generation then the recipient would have to change some element of it to make it different." . The original Arms would descend to the eldest son undifferenced, whilst other sons would difference their version. This is what may have happened in this case but, if so, which line is the "original" could be hard to discover.
On the other hand, heraldry was not particularly well controlled in England at this time and it is possible that one party has merely adopted similar arms from a family of the same name !
A quick look at Burke's General Armory, unreliable though it is (!), shows a series of Hopson families have similar Arms - 'Ar. on a chev. az. betw. three torteaux' (or variants)  and then various charges which might suggest a common origins with your Hobsons. You may need to go back earlier to find the common ground !   Good hunting !

Maec

I had thought that William Hobson who gave the pedigree in 1634 might have ''borrowed'' the arms, as he himself had rose to a standing of Esquire and his daughters had all married quite prosperously. It is odd how he seemingly knows his maternal grandfather, William Wells (I have William Wells will) but doesn't know his paternal grandfather despite the Hobson family wealth resting upon the 150 acre male entailed estate since 1554 and William indeed noting that his brother Thomas was the heir of his father Robert.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Edmund Read of Sutton. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
John Brewin of Stretton Parva. Gent
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall, Gent

Offline belgraveshed11

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Re: Hobson of Great Glen and London?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 03 April 21 14:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the clarification re relationships and trees and re inheriting coats of arms I will remember that in future. I think I understand my error on my tree - I have William being the son of Thomas the Elder which is wrong and he is likely to be son of Thomas the younger (who is likely Thomas the Elder's cousin). Thanks for your help on this Regards A.

Offline belgraveshed11

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Re: Hobson of Great Glen and London?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 20:26 BST (UK) »
Looking back at my notes I did find the following which may be of interest - Part of doc in National Archive ("Inspeximus of Letters Patent) Made at the request of Robert Kendall, gent.
Recites Letters Patent of 21 Nov 1556 [includes following reference...] " All the messuages, cottages, lands etc. in the occupation of Robert Wyeth, Simon Prior, Thomas Hobson and others in Glen Magna, lately part of the lands of Henry late Duke of Suffolk.