Author Topic: Nancy CARROLL  (Read 2291 times)

Offline garlands

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 09:38 BST (UK) »
                In the light of events over the last few days, I think we have to conclude that there was another member of the CARROLL family whom they named Annie and, because Annie BORLAND was already a family member, it was necessary to distinguish between them, so the newcomer was known as Nancy.

                In the 1911, Mary’s mother reported having had 6 children, 4 of whom were alive at that time, and these are all listed. Therefore, Annie CARROLL must have been born AFTER the census, i.e. 1911 onwards
BENNETT, DAW, DYER, GARLAND, LEAT, SNELL, Devon
CONDY, DREW, GOLDSWORTHY, GONINAN, PENHALURICK, ROWE, TIPPET, WASLEY, Cornwall
NEWMAN, PERRIN, Gloucs
EVANS,  Hereford
BAKER, Somerset
RICHARDS, Brecknock
FRANCIS, Glam
ALBAN, Carmarthen
WILLIAMS, Gower

Offline Lodger

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 10:36 BST (UK) »
Just to conclude the information for plot E924 at Cambusnethan cemetery.

The other two interments after  Joan and John were -

ANNIE BORLAND BECK, housewife. Died at Glasgow Royal Infirmary, usual residence 13 Shieldmuir St Wishaw. Aged 29 years, married.
Parents - John Borland & Annie Wilson.
Interred in E924 on 14th March 1924.

BARCLAY CARROLL, retired. Wishaw, aged 88 years, married.
Parents - Michael Carroll & Mary Reilly.
Interred in E924 on 2nd February 1951.

The lair would only hold 4 adults, so any other family member who died after Barclay would have been buried elsewhere.
In the 1925 street directory for the joint burgh of Motherwell & Wishaw there is -
Carroll B, 13 Shieldmuir Street Wishaw.
There were several people with the surname Beck, all living around this part of Shieldmuir Street, commonly called the "English Buildings".
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.

Offline garlands

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 11:47 BST (UK) »
Very interesting. I have Annie BECK's death certificate, acquired to help me eliminate her in the hunt for Nancy, but where did Barclay CARROLL come from? Was he Bartholomew CARROLL's brother? He's certainly of the same vintage.
BENNETT, DAW, DYER, GARLAND, LEAT, SNELL, Devon
CONDY, DREW, GOLDSWORTHY, GONINAN, PENHALURICK, ROWE, TIPPET, WASLEY, Cornwall
NEWMAN, PERRIN, Gloucs
EVANS,  Hereford
BAKER, Somerset
RICHARDS, Brecknock
FRANCIS, Glam
ALBAN, Carmarthen
WILLIAMS, Gower


Offline Lodger

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 12:04 BST (UK) »
Could Barclay and Bartholomew be the same person? He was still married at the time of death, so why would he take up the last space in that lair? Where then, was his wife buried and where was Annie buried?
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.

Offline garlands

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 12:51 BST (UK) »
All good points. Certainly, if Barclay and Bartholomew are one and the same, that could be the reason why I've been unable to find a birth for Bart. I have the same father's name for them both, but I have Bart's mother as Mary HEALY which might be because I've mis-read REILLY.
BENNETT, DAW, DYER, GARLAND, LEAT, SNELL, Devon
CONDY, DREW, GOLDSWORTHY, GONINAN, PENHALURICK, ROWE, TIPPET, WASLEY, Cornwall
NEWMAN, PERRIN, Gloucs
EVANS,  Hereford
BAKER, Somerset
RICHARDS, Brecknock
FRANCIS, Glam
ALBAN, Carmarthen
WILLIAMS, Gower

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 15:44 BST (UK) »
             
 In the 1911, Mary’s mother reported having had 6 children, 4 of whom were alive at that time, and these are all listed. Therefore, Annie CARROLL must have been born AFTER the census, i.e. 1911 onwards

This question in the 1911 census should relate only to current marriage. How many years did she show as married to Bartholomew? From Forfarian marriage year earlier (1904), 6 or 7 yrs? The Borland children should not have been included in this number....but misunderstandings and mistakes creep in.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 15:52 BST (UK) »
The 1911 census lists at 9b Carfin Road, Wishaw, Parish of Dalziel
Bartho Carroll, head, 48, married, puddler iron trade, born Bothwell
Annie Carroll, wife, 48, married 7 years, 6 children, 4 living, born Cambusnethan
Annie Boreland, daughter, 16, single, shop assistant, born Cambusnethan
Jeanie Boreland, daughter, 12, school, born Bellshill
Mary Carroll, daughter, 5, born Bellshill
Kitty Carroll, daughter, 3, born Bellshill

Bartholomew Carroll married Annie Wilson or Boreland in Glasgow in 1904....

From Forfarian's previous post.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lodger

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 15:55 BST (UK) »
Well spotted Monica but I think, technically, the two questions asked to married women were -
a) How long have you been married?
b) How many live children have you given birth to and how many are still alive.

Annie would have given the correct answers, the first question didn't ask how many times the woman had been married and the second question didn't ask about issue from current or previous marriages.

This reminds me of the information given on 1855 birth certificates, it lists children, including sex and whether alive or dead of the husband and then after the wife's details it states how many children she has given birth to. The numbers do not always tally as one or the other could have been married previously.
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Nancy CARROLL
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 07 April 20 16:25 BST (UK) »
Bit of a grey area isn't it...

Have made some headway. I have found a shipping manifest which lists:

Gordon Dalton-Kirby 27 engineer
Nancy Dalton-Kirby 29 housewife
Carole Anne Dalton-Kirby 4
Gordon Dalton-Kirby 3

Their address is given as 84 Craigneuk St Wishaw. They show as resident in Scotland but heading to Australia to live permanently. They left on the 'Strathmore' from London on 20 Dec 1951. Arrival port given as Sydney Australia.

Explains why there were no death entries in Scotland for them. So, the 1948 marriage is certainlly theirs, sadly the one you cannot view yet.

Given the age of Nancy here, born c. 1922, she cannot be the daughter of Ann Wilson  :-\ She could be the natural daughter of one of the Borland girls, Mary Carroll (would have been 16/17 in 1922) or maybe adopted by the family? The marriage cert will hopefully provide more details.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk