Quartering and Heraldic Heiresses

[Pk9999]

In the Visitation of Leicestershire 1619 page 44 there is shown the pedigree of Whethill of Shepey their Arms quartering is given as Whethill, Flaunders (Flanders) and Shepey.
Richard Whithill, living in 1436 had two wives, first Margaret de Shepey heiress to John de Shepey of Great Shepey, Leicestershire and second Margaret de Flanders co-heiress to John de Flanders of Flanders, Warwickshire.
Am I right to assume that Richard's heir Thomas Whithill would only be allowed to display the Arms of his biological mother and not of both his father's wives. If so then the Shepey Arms must come from another Shepey/Whethill marriage.
Any guidance or thoughts would be appreciated.

[Kiltpin]

In the Visitation of Leicestershire 1619 page 44 there is shown the pedigree of Whethill of Shepey their Arms quartering is given as Whethill, Flaunders (Flanders) and Shepey.
Richard Whithill, living in 1436 had two wives, first Margaret de Shepey heiress to John de Shepey of Great Shepey, Leicestershire and second Margaret de Flanders co-heiress to John de Flanders of Flanders, Warwickshire.
Am I right to assume that Richard's heir Thomas Whithill would only be allowed to display the Arms of his biological mother and not of both his father's wives. If so then the Shepey Arms must come from another Shepey/Whethill marriage.
Any guidance or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Well Pk, you have opened a can of worms here.

You are more or less right in what you say, except for Margaret. A woman can only be a co-heir to another woman (usually sister) when it comes to arms. If there is a brother he inherits the arms by right and the sisters bear their father's arms as a courtesy. 

Quartering is not a science, it is very much an art-form. In a lifetime a man might bear more than one coat. 

1 - The coat he inherited from his father, 

2 - That coat, impaled with his wife's arms for his first marriage, 

3 - The same again for each subsequent marriage (dropping the previous wife's arms), 

4 - The quartered coat with his arms and all his wives' arms and ALL THE ARMS THAT COME WITH EACH WIFE'S ARMS. 

These are the arms that you are talking about here. 

This is where the art comes in. Strictly speaking the latest wife goes next to the husband, BUT if the first wife happened to be the daughter of a Duke, she would rank higher and be placed closer. Unless the Duke was on the wrong side during a little war, then she could be dropped out all together. Politics, precedence and fashion of the day play a big roll. 

The Earl Marshal (The Duke  of Norfolk) has well known arms. In the first quarter is Howard (his family name), with Warren, Brotherton and de Warre in the others. But his fully quartered arms have over 120 quarterings - far too many to make the arms recognisable. So they are dropped.   

Except for Scotland, where these things are regulated, it is up the the individual armiger to include, or exclude, whichever arms he wants. 

Regards 

Chas

[Pk9999]

Thanks Chas for your prompt reply.
I think I should have been more clear with my wording,  Margaret de Flanders was one of three sisters who were co-heirs OF her father John de Flanders. She was not co-heir with John.
So while her husband would be able to include both his wife's Arms (if I read your reply correctly) I am interested to know if his own son and heir would also be able to display both his Father's wive's Arms or only his biological mother's Arms as part of the quartering.
Thank, Paul

[Kiltpin]

Thanks Chas for your prompt reply.
I think I should have been more clear with my wording,  Margaret de Flanders was one of three sisters who were co-heirs OF her father John de Flanders. She was not co-heir with John.
So while her husband would be able to include both his wife's Arms (if I read your reply correctly) I am interested to know if his own son and heir would also be able to display both his Father's wive's Arms or only his biological mother's Arms as part of the quartering.
Thank, Paul

 

Hi Pk, 

As a general rule of thumb - The eldest son inherits the father's undifferenced arms as a right. As it were, starting a fresh - new marriages and new quarterings. 

It becomes a bit hazy with the younger sons. Firstly they should inherit their father's arms with a difference to denote their own place in the age hierarchy. They can bear these arms on their own with no quarterings. But if their biological mother is the heraldic heiress of their grandfather, with the gf having no sons and is himself dead, it is only polite to quarter her courtesy arms with their own. This perpetuates  the grandfather's arms for at least another generation. 

Once their father is dead, both the eldest son and his younger brothers can add the extra quarterings that their  mother(s) brought in. And, of course, any historical important quarterings as well. A royal quartering is often still found 200 years later! 

In 2007 the College of Arms stopped adding brisures of cadency. That is to say the age hierarchy differences.  So now it is up to the individual armiger to add the quarterings that he wants. 

Regards 

Chas