Author Topic: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?  (Read 824 times)

Offline janfurness

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 459
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« on: Thursday 09 April 20 13:09 BST (UK) »
I've just found an interesting record from 1687 for St Nicholas church, Great Yarmouth concerning my 8x gread grandmother, born Lydia Toftes- It  was in the parish register for the baptism of Anne, daughter of Deborah Spendlove 18th December 1687-
"Anne, ye bastard daughter of Deborah, daughter of Lydia Spendlove, widdow. Mother is daughter of Lydia Spendlove a widdow. Who by the dishonour of her husband's memory,sometime curate of this parish, left the community of ye church of England,led her daughter thither and by a tricke put the bastard upon the church she had left."
Despite this, Lydia was buried in St Nicholas in September the following year. The part I've put in italics is in smaller writing in the record, so could have been inserted after the baptism, but the original entry makes it clear Anne was illegitimate so I'm not sure what the trick was or how Anne was "put upon the church". Does anyone have any suggestions? I don't know what became of Anne following her inauspicious start in life.
 .
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Offline pharmaT

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,272
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 April 20 13:31 BST (UK) »
To put upon the church I am guessing meant that they required relief from the parish.
Campbell, Dunn, Dickson, Fell, Forest, Norie, Pratt, Somerville, Thompson, Tyler among others

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 April 20 13:42 BST (UK) »
Under the Old Poor Law illegitimate children were granted settlement in the place they were born, so possibly the trick was that the place of birth was falsified.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/poorlaws/oldpoorlaw.shtml

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,090
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 April 20 13:44 BST (UK) »
An illigitimate person couldn't marry in church or be buried in consecrated grounds and neither could they prevail upon Parish Relief (money) when they fell upon hard times.

It seems as though possibly the illigitimate baby had been born years before the vicar was posted to the church and he only learnt the facts after the death
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline decor

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 09 April 20 14:10 BST (UK) »
An illigitimate person couldn't marry in church or be buried in consecrated grounds and neither could they prevail upon Parish Relief (money) when they fell upon hard times.

It seems as though possibly the illigitimate baby had been born years before the vicar was posted to the church and he only learnt the facts after the death

Where would they marry then?!
This information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline janfurness

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 459
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 09 April 20 14:19 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I wondered if it was connected to parish relief
Lydia was married to Christopher Spendlove in 1651 at the age of 20, and they had 8 children born between 1652 and 1674. Deborah is the only one for whom I don't have a baptismal record. In fact the record of Anne's baptism is the only record I have for her. So I don't know when she was born or when Anne was likely to have been born. (I'm assuming that she was fairly young when Anne was born.)
Christopher Spendlove was rector of St Nicholas from 1665 to his death in 1678. By then Lydia was 47. I wonder what she did when she left the community of the church and led her daughter thither. Obviously she was blamed for her daughter becoming a "fallen woman."
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Offline Old Bristolian

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,975
  • Stephen Bumstead 1844-1903
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 April 20 15:56 BST (UK) »
An illigitimate person couldn't marry in church or be buried in consecrated grounds and neither could they prevail upon Parish Relief (money) when they fell upon hard times.

It seems as though possibly the illigitimate baby had been born years before the vicar was posted to the church and he only learnt the facts after the death
I think this is quite incorrect. There are plenty records showing marriages, burials etc. of illegitimate people in the Church of England. They certainly did receive parish relief, and this is implied by the use of 'trick'. Presumably, Lydia had joined a nonconformist sect (possibly the Quakers) and yet managed to arrange a baptism and thus get the Church, and thus the parish, to acknowledge her settlement.
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon

Offline ThrelfallYorky

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,390
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 09 April 20 15:59 BST (UK) »
I also have found marriages of people who - in the same parish - had been labelled as illegitimate in their baptismal record, so that can't be the reason.
The trick could be almost any form of false declaration, concerning place of birth, assets, parentage etc. And we will never know!
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 09 April 20 16:06 BST (UK) »
An illigitimate person couldn't marry in church or be buried in consecrated grounds

Old Bristolian is correct, it was only the burial of suicides, along with felons, outcasts and unbaptised infants, that would be in unconsecrated ground. There was no restriction on illegitimate people being married in church.

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk