Author Topic: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902  (Read 996 times)

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« on: Saturday 11 April 20 14:16 BST (UK) »
I wonder if someone please could shed light on William Wardman?  All I have is his name and marriage place/year, but I have a lot more info on his wife.

He married a widow, Charlotte Ann Crook nee West, in 1902 in Derby.  As this is the only reference I have to him, I have posted this in the Derbyshire board.

Charlotte Ann has been easy to trace throughout her life, as a child, born in E Farndon, Northamptonshire, sometimes given as Market Harborough, Leics, on 9 May 1868, her marriage in 1892 in Nottingham to George Crook (whose family details I also have), their two daughters Nora Winifred and Edith Ann(ie) and his early death in 1897 in Basford (well, the record fits - I haven't validated this). 

I have her in the 1901 census at Bayston, Florence Rd, Aston, Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire as a widow, a dressmaker, living with her widowed mother-in-law Ann Matthews (who had also remarried so previously Crook nee Warren), plus the two girls, plus a boarder. It is not clear whether Charlotte was visiting or lived at this address.

In 1911 she is at 9 Queen St, Derby with her brother-in-law Thomas Coulson, his wife/her sister Rosa May, Alfred Coulson (Thomas' father), Edith Annie Crook, 15, and barmaid Annie Dakin.  Charlotte Wardman is shown as married, not a widow, in this census.  This might be a mistake and she was a widow as I cannot William Wardman anywhere in the 1911 census - I've also searched for Hardman as it could have been mistranscribed.  As I don't know his age or place of birth it is more difficult to identify him.

I have her addresses from electoral rolls - Edgbaston in 1922; 1927;1930 (different addresses each time) but only her name, no William Wardman.  From 1938 I have her on electoral rolls for Evelyn Court, Cheltenham with her daughter Edith Bell. In the 1939 register she is at the same address but mistranscribed as Hardman.  She is described as a widow. This is where I obtained her date of birth.

She died in Cheltenham on 2 Jan 1944, and probate granted to Lloyds Bank on 6 Mar 1944.

Nora Winifred most likely married an Alsop, and Edith Annie married a Mr Bell but I haven't delved far with their details.

My puzzle is William Wardman - has he been mistranscribed as Hardman, or Hardiman, or just not counted or not in the database on Ancestry?  There is also another William/Charlotte Wardman couple who pop up in searches, but I think I've seen them on the 1939 register too, so the wrong couple.

I wonder if there was a newspaper announcement of William and Charlotte marrying, or a church record?  I have searched Ancestry's Derbyshire parish records but not found them.  Either I missed seeing them or names have been mistranscribed?

Hope someone can help.

Thanks.

Val
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline Comberton

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 11 April 20 14:45 BST (UK) »
FindMyPast has the transcription of the marriage as
William Wardman
Charlotte Ann Crook
1902
Derby Normanton Road Congregational Chapel

Can't find anything in the newspapers

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 64,496
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 11 April 20 15:53 BST (UK) »
I think the only way to get more info about him is to buy a copy of the marriage cert.  He may have been a mariner but the cert should hopefully give his age and his fathers name.  It should also show whether he was a bachelor or widower
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)


Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 11 April 20 16:01 BST (UK) »
Thanks Comberton - at least that gets me to their denomination!

And yes, CaroleW yoiu're right that the marriage cert is the only way to get further along with this.  As they are not immediate ancestors I was hoping to find out more without buying any certificates.  It's one of those loose ends that's been nagging away at me.

Val
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 11 April 20 16:06 BST (UK) »
CaroleW - Derby isn't close to the sea so why did you think he may have been a mariner? Because of being missing in the 1911 census?
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 64,496
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 11 April 20 18:46 BST (UK) »
I did say "may" have been a mariner.   He may have been in an asylum?   

Looking at entries with a similar birthyear to Charlotte and allowing that he may have been a "toy boy" doesn't throw up any possibilities which is why I wondered if he was a mariner.

It's a pity the GRO don't do pdf copies of marriage certs - at 7 it makes buying one a bit more attractive than 11
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 11 April 20 19:57 BST (UK) »
Yes, he may well have been. Wonder what the custom was for second marriages regarding location.  For first marriages it was nearly always in the bride's parish of birth (or was it just where all the family still lived?), but for the widowed participants I wonder if it was whatever was convenient, or the bride's current parish of residence, or the groom's.

I think if in an asylum, he would have popped up as initials WW as they didn't put the full name.  Although as I don't have his age or any other info, the census search results wouldn't necessarily throw those up I suppose.  I shall have to scroll down to the bitter end to see if there are any initials.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Val
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 64,496
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 11 April 20 20:14 BST (UK) »
To be honest - the marriage cert is the only way forward.  Somebody has posted incorrect info on the 1911 entry saying she married Matthew Wardman so I have just posted a correction
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: William WARDMAN who married in Derby in 1902
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 12 April 20 08:15 BST (UK) »
Agree about the cert and the lack of pdf option for a marriage cert.  Also I'm puzzled as to why the GRO have online birth and death index details but not marriages.

Which 1911 entry that you corrected are you referring to?  One on Ancestry or FindMyPast or elsewhere?
Crook, Bannister, Warren