Grey/ Gray family - really testing the grey matter

[LizzieL]

I have four baptisms for Joseph Greys and four burials for Joseph Greys in Brightwalton but having trouble sorting out which burial goes with which baptism.

John and Mary Grey had two sons, John (bapt 1680) and Joseph (bapt 1682).

Both John and Joseph married ladies called Joan / Jone.

John to Joan Taylor in Newbury in 1708
Joseph to Joan (no surname listed) in Brightwalton in 1716

John and Joan had 5 children: Mary (1709- 1714), Elizabeth (1711 - 1714), John (1715 - 1777), Joseph (1718 - ?) and Ann (1725 - 1732).

Joseph and Joan had 3 children: Mary (1719 - 1753), Joseph (1721 - ?) and Elizabeth (1724 - 1738).

Either Joseph (1718) or Joseph (1721) married Elizabeth Bartholemew in 1754 and had a son called Joseph in 1760.

So we have four Josephs baptism years:
1682: 1718: 1721 and 1760

The four burials are:
6 Feb 1738
27 May 1762 (note: labourer)
7 July 1782 (note: the younger)
6 April 1795

Joan Grey wife of Joseph was buried 24 Jan 1748, as it says wife not widow, the 1738 death cannot be Joseph 1682.

The 1762 death has to be an adult and not the Joseph born 1760.

Can anyone work out which death is which and which Joseph married Elizabeth Bartholemew, please.

[LizzieL]

have now found Joseph Grey's wife's full name was Joan Bannister

[philipsearching]

Joseph the younger must have a living father Joseph.  If Joseph (bapt 1721) were Joseph the younger, then Joseph senior (bapt 1682) would have died in 1782 aged around 100, and Joseph bapt 1760 would not be accounted for.

So Joseph the younger (bur 1782) must be the one bapt 1760.  This means the Joseph buried 1795 must be Joseph senior, bapt 1718 or 1721)

So, Joseph bapt 1682 must have died in 1738 or 1762.  Would he have been a labourer dying in 1762 aged 80?  It's not impossible, but seems less likely than the 1738 death.  BUT, as Joan buried 1748 was wife not widow, he must have died in 1738.

The best I can get is:
Joseph (son of John & Mary, bapt 1682) buried 27 May 1762 (labourer)
Joseph (son of John & Joan TAYLOR, bapt 1718) buried 6 Feb 1738 OR buried 6 April 1795
Joseph (son of Joseph & Joan BANNISTER, bapt 1721) buried 6 Feb 1738 OR buried 6 April 1795
Joseph (son of Joseph & Elizabeth BARTHOLOMEW, bapt 1760) buried 7 July 1782 (the younger)


From this, I can't see a way to establish which Joseph married Elizabeth.

Philip

[Capetown]

Hopefully answers could be found in Wills....  including female line.

The Berkshire Recods Office - has an online Will search and a number of GRAY's listed.


Checking with the National Archives -

a2a: and searching for Gray, Newbury - quite a few hits

including

Will of John GRAY of Newbury, Berkshire - date: 30 August 1737
Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills (so will be on Ancestry)

Will of Jane GRAY, Spinster of Newbury - date: 10 November 1738
(again Prerogative Court of Canterbury (so should be on Ancestry)

Insured: Joseph GRAY, Newbury, Berkshire, Baker - 1 May 1793
Sun Fire Office

Will of Joseph Gray Newbury 1805 (also on Ancestry)

John Gray's Will 22 January 1799 - talks about his brother Joseph Gray) - also on Ancestry
====



and later Wills etc as well.

[Capetown]

Having a quick read of the Will of John GRAY of Newbury, 30 August 1737

Son, John and (Joseph - who was his sole Executor)
Daughters; Sarah Still? and Ann SUTTON, Grandaugters, Mary BURGES and Ann BROWN

---

[LizzieL]

Joseph the younger must have a living father Joseph.  If Joseph (bapt 1721) were Joseph the younger, then Joseph senior (bapt 1682) would have died in 1782 aged around 100, and Joseph bapt 1760 would not be accounted for.

So Joseph the younger (bur 1782) must be the one bapt 1760.  This means the Joseph buried 1795 must be Joseph senior, bapt 1718 or 1721)

So, Joseph bapt 1682 must have died in 1738 or 1762.  Would he have been a labourer dying in 1762 aged 80?  It's not impossible, but seems less likely than the 1738 death.  BUT, as Joan buried 1748 was wife not widow, he must have died in 1738.

The best I can get is:
Joseph (son of John & Mary, bapt 1682) buried 27 May 1762 (labourer)
Joseph (son of John & Joan TAYLOR, bapt 1718) buried 6 Feb 1738 OR buried 6 April 1795
Joseph (son of Joseph & Joan BANNISTER, bapt 1721) buried 6 Feb 1738 OR buried 6 April 1795
Joseph (son of Joseph & Elizabeth BARTHOLOMEW, bapt 1760) buried 7 July 1782 (the younger)


From this, I can't see a way to establish which Joseph married Elizabeth.

Philip

Thank you, that's certainly sorted out two of the four.

[LizzieL]

Having a quick read of the Will of John GRAY of Newbury, 30 August 1737

Son, John and (Joseph - who was his sole Executor)
Daughters; Sarah Still? and Ann SUTTON, Grandaugters, Mary BURGES and Ann BROWN

---

Thank, I'll have a look at the Newbury wills, I had found a couple which are connected to the family.

There is an administration bond taken out on the estate of John Grey the younger, labourer in 1838 by Giles Taylor, maltster of Leckhampsted. Other signatories were Francis Nelson of Chaddleworth, gent and George Calverley of newbury, vintner.

Joan Grey wife of John was buried 23 Oct 1737 and there was a John buried in February 1838 a few days after his son or nephew Joseph.

When John (1680) married Joan Taylor in Newbury (24 jan 1708), the record said he was of Brightwalton and she was of Leckhampstead in the parish of Cheively.

There is a will of Giles Ogburne alias Taylor, maltster of Leckhampstead Thickett in the parish of Cheively written in 1714, in which he mentions his daughter Joan Grey, various other children and his eldest son Giles who seems to get the business. So it looks like the Giles who took out admin for John Grey was Joan's brother.

I have found five children for this couple, the three daughters had died before the parents, but John (1715) and Joseph (1718) should have still been living in 1738 (unless it was this Joseph buried in Feb 1738). John would have been of age and could have taken out administration, but maybe he preferred to leave it to his uncle.

As to sorting out the two Josephs (1718 and 1721), I am tending towards Joseph the son of John dying in 1738, as it's so close to John's death. Possibly some contagious disease in the house that they both succumbed to. Unfortunately burial records are just indexes and only gives names, dates and occasionally relationships.