Author Topic: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?  (Read 883 times)

Online heywood

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 27 April 20 12:12 BST (UK) »
Sorry - still transcribing and then missed the relevant post  ::)

The Thorpes in 1891

1891 529/101


Woolwich
Charles Thorpe   46 yrs
Beatrice Thorpe   41 yrs
Arthur Thorpe 11 yrs
Charles A Thorpe9 yrs
James Thorpe 7 yrs
Caroline Thorpe   5 yrs
Kathleen Thorpe 3 yrs
Alphonso Thorpe 1 yr

*Arthur transcribed as 17 yrs
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 27 April 20 12:16 BST (UK) »
My post crossed with yours.

I see that Beatrice claimed to be married in the 1881 census (if, as seems very likely, this is her).

But as usual one answer creates several questions.
- what happened to Charles Chaplin?
- if he died, who is the Charles Chaplin in the workhouse?
- why did she revert to McClure?
- where and when did she marry Samuel McClure?
- what happened to Samuel?
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Milliepede

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 27 April 20 12:30 BST (UK) »
Yes a lot more questions. 

It's all out of order with her surnames isn't it.  She married as Buchanan to Chaplin but then reverts to McClure to marry Thorpe. 

Where was the child she had with Samuel born? 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire


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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 27 April 20 13:20 BST (UK) »
The child wasn't Samuel's. James Buchanan was born in Edinburgh on 9 December 1873, and on his birth certificate Beatrice is described as 'widow of Samuel McClure, Band Serjeant 14th Regiment of Foot'. At least I think it's 14th - it's unclear.

I have not found the marriage in England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales, and I have not found Samuel's death, let alone any other information about him.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Milliepede

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 11:33 BST (UK) »
Quote
The child wasn't Samuel's

Why don't you think he was the father?  The part about her being his widow may not have been true but he could still have fathered her child. 

The 1881 marriage to Charles Thorpe describes her as a widow.  There are some details of the marriage on ancestry you may have now seen.

As an aside I wonder what they were all doing in Scotland when born in London  :-\
Charles and Beatrice and her parents I mean. 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline Milliepede

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 11:44 BST (UK) »
Quote
I have not found the marriage in England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales, and I have not found Samuel's death, let alone any other information about him.

There is a Samuel Mclure born 1849 in Edinburgh in 1861. 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 13:38 BST (UK) »
Quote
The child wasn't Samuel's
Why don't you think he was the father?  The part about her being his widow may not have been true but he could still have fathered her child.
Because Samuel was not named as the father on the birth certificate - he space for the father's name is blank.

Quote
The 1881 marriage to Charles Thorpe describes her as a widow.  There are some details of the marriage on ancestry you may have now seen.
Thank you. I don't subscribe to Ancestry.

Quote
As an aside I wonder what they were all doing in Scotland when born in London  :-\
Charles and Beatrice and her parents I mean.
Beatrice's parents were both born in Scotland. They were married in Scotland and their eldest child was born in Scotland. In 1841 James Buchanan was a tailor's journeyman. In 1851 he is described as a sergeant in the Metropolitan Police. In 1861, when they were in Woolwich, he is described as 'corporal military man'. I have yet to find him in the 1871, but in 1881 he was living in Glasgow, and described as a tailor. His wife Margaret, born in Edinburgh, died in Glasgow in 1891, and James himself, born in Ayr, died in Glasgow later the same year. So it looks like a classic case of Scots going to London for employment, and returning to Scotland later in life.

What is more curious is what Charles Chaplin was doing In Scotland. Perhaps he just went there long enough to marry Beatrice, whom he had known in the south-east of England.

There is a Samuel Mclure born 1849 in Edinburgh in 1861. 
Yes. He is in the home for deaf and dumb boys, having lost his hearing by a fall according to the census, which gives his place of birth as Dreghorn, Ayrshire.  A Samuel McClure, aged 13, mother's maiden surname Caughy, died in Dreghorn in 1861. His parents match the 2-year-old Samuel McClure living in Dalmellington in Ayrshire in 1851, born in New Monkland, Lanarkshire.

There is no other death in the Scottish deaths index of a Samuel M*c*lu*re* who could by any stretch of the most acrobatic imagination be Beatrice's husband, unless she was lying and she wasn't a widow at all.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline barryd

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 15:05 BST (UK) »
Alphonso Thorpe born 1890 Woolwich area
Alphonso Thorpe died 1966 Greenwich area





Offline Milliepede

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Re: I wonder what happened to Charles Chaplin and Beatrice Buchanan?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 16:27 BST (UK) »
Quote
Because Samuel was not named as the father on the birth certificate - he space for the father's name is blank.

Yes but that doesn't mean he wasn't the father.  He has to be the prime suspect! 

My theory would be they weren't married but for decency sake she pretended to be his widow on the birth.

Either way the certificate doesn't add up because she would still be McClure widowed or not and so would the child be McClure unless he was illegitimate in which case he would be Buchanan which he is. 

Thanks for the info about Scotland.  I can see why she and her parents were there. 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire