Author Topic: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family  (Read 1832 times)

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #9 on: Monday 27 April 20 22:22 BST (UK) »
I thought that a possiblity, Forfain. One of the later censuses however shows John Jas Paterson. As always though, original images need to be checked for confirmation of details as you can't rely on the transcripts (as useful as they are for scouting around  ;)).

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline hmcc

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 14:11 BST (UK) »
Hi,
There is a Johnston family at Damhouse, Dunscore in 1861 census including Marion Johnston (11) and John Johnston (6). They are similar ages as ones with Agnes Paterson in 1871 census.
hmcc

Offline lydiaann

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 16:38 BST (UK) »
As always, Chatters, you have excelled yourselves.  It's taken me a while to sort through all the tips and advice and this is what I have found.

Forfarian:  There seems to be a ton of reading in your 3 links to records of Kirk sessions etc.  Thank goodness we are in 'lockdown' AND it's raining, it will give me time.  Meanwhile...

hmcc:  Firstly, don't know why I didn't find Mary Gibson Boyes' birth!  However, all that is available seems to be the PR of baptism on 4 May 1850 (b. 30 Mar, 1849) where she is recorded as the "N.D. of Alexander Boyes and Agnes Paterson".  Other births seems to be "L.D." or "L.S."...I am presuming this means 'natural' rather than 'legitimate'.  I tried researching Alex'r but the only one I can find is 6 years younger than Agnes and marries an Agnes McGeorge.  But thanks, hmcc, for that snippet.  There is no further information on this young lady, not even in other family trees.  There is no record of any marriage in the OPRs of Agnes and Alexander.

Now for William. MonicaL... Yes, I can see the birth of William Paterson to Agnes in 1860 in FamilySearch but there is no corresponding information in SP and I am confused as to why, from 9 months later he is known as William McConvle (sic), Wm Conviel, and Thomas W G Conville in the subsequent censuses.  In any case, there are no birth records for the various names of this young man, nor can I find marriage or death.

Marion and John Johnston.  Yes, hmcc and MonicaL again (gosh, you do work hard for other people, thanks so much!).  I have found the 1861 census with both of them who are noted as the son and daughter of James (tailor) and Mary, and the one with John with his grandparents.  The names are wrong entirely, there are no Johnstons in this family line so unlikely to be related to Agnes.

The more I dig and pick at this problem, the more perplexing it becomes.  How can these people disappear so completely?  And appear with no apparent or only very sparse records of birth etc.  Even Agnes has no death record (so far).  I will see what I can get from the KS records, but it seems to me that either Agnes was VERY mixed up herself, or she had been a bit of a 'goer'!! 
Watch this space.

In the meantime, my gratitude to you all for you hard work.  Please stay safe.

lydiaann
Cravens of Wakefield, Alnwick, Banchory-Ternan
Houghtons and Harrises of Melbourne, Derbyshire
Taylors of Chadderton/Oldham, Lancashire
MacGillivrays of Mull
Macdonalds of Dundee

Offline hmcc

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 16:58 BST (UK) »
Hi
You might have missed birth for William Paterson 1860 Keir, Dumfries as  MonicaL already posted from family search, it is on SP too.
hmcc


Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,970
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 17:56 BST (UK) »
"N.D. of Alexander Boyes and Agnes Paterson".  Other births seems to be "L.D." or "L.S."
Natural Daughter as opposed to Lawful Daughter, i.e. illegitimate.

[quoteI can see the birth of William Paterson to Agnes in 1860 in FamilySearch but there is no corresponding information in SP [/quote]I don't understand why not. His birth is in the index as expected. See the attached screenshot.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline hmcc

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 19:31 BST (UK) »
Paternity Cases on Scottish Indexes regarding Mary Gibson, defender Alexander Boyes and pursuer Agnes Patterson, Damhouse, Dunscore.
https://www.scottishindexes.com/courttranscript.aspx?courtid=15030068

Damhouse was also the address for Marion and John Johnston 1861 census, may have been neighbours of Agnes.
hmcc

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 21:44 BST (UK) »
What do we think? Looking likely that Marion and John Johnston were not Agnes's children, although they are listed as such in 1871?

I cannot see a death for Mary Bell/Johnston between 1861 but husband James and youngest son James are visiting their eldest daughter Margaret Johnston/Cowan in 1871:

William Cowan 23 upholsterer b. Dumfries
Maggie I Cavan 25 wife b. Dunscore
James Johnston 52 visitor, tailor b. Holywood, Dumfries
James Johnston 14 visitor b. Dunscore

Address: 23 1/2 Loreburn Street, Dumfries

John Johnston, b. 1853 to James and Mary Bell, showed as an apprentice upholsterer in Agnes's household in 1871.

Monica

Added: Have you checked the original image for the 1871 census? It may simply be that the relationship to head of household for Marion and John has been mistranscribed on the commercial transcripts.
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 22:08 BST (UK) »
Even Agnes has no death record (so far). 

Have you viewed and discounted this death:

Agnes Hiddlesto... Paterson
Age 75
1894 (she shows as still alive with son Thomas William in Keir in 1891)
Death in Keir
Ref 833/ 8

Only one surname showing for this registration which would indicate this Agnes was unmarried.

Monica
   
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Agnes Paterson & her ever-changing family
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 28 April 20 22:17 BST (UK) »

Mary Gibson Boyes born 4/5/1850 Dunscore to Alexander Boyes and Agnes Paterson.
hmcc

Mary's father in the 1851 census?

www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=82202026

She is not with mother Agnes in 1871. Likely out of the home by now and working elsewhere.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk