Looking for information about John Roche (or Roach), Bandon. Born about 1830

[idyia14]

I am looking for information regarding John Roche (various spellings, may be Roach.) He was born in Ireland about 1830 somewhere near Bandon, Cork. I know that his father's name was also John but do not know the name of his mother. John (the younger) left Ireland and settled in Wales. On 25th March 1851 he married Catherine Evans in the Cardiff district in Wales. She was born about 1834, also from Ireland. I could not find them in the 1851 England & Wales census, although I have found them in later censuses, so, they must have left Ireland before 1851. They had children Francis (~1854), Thomas (~1859), Charles (~1861), William (~1862), Maurice ~(1864), Charles Allen (~1865), Simon (~1870), Catherine (~1871), Bridget (~1874) and Stephen (~1877), all born in Wales. I would really like to know any information about the family's Irish roots.

[Sinann]

Assuming he was RC
Brandon Parish register.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0017
Neighboring parishes can be found via the map.
Transcriptions here
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
Just prove your not a robot.

Without his mother's name any John Roche with father John found may not be yours.

[heywood]

Hello,
I know you are searching here for John but looking at children’s  births, the ones I can see have a mother’s name of Brien (with variation in spelling). I can’t see a birth for Francis but have found some of the others using GRO.
I was thinking that if they married in 1851, there would (usually) be a child a bit sooner than 1854 
Was Catherine a widow or was there a second marriage for John?

[idyia14]

You are right, of course. I only found out about the GRO access to births yesterday and had based all my research on what I found in FreeBMD - which doesn't give the mother's maiden name. So I have made an incorrect assumption because the marriage between John Roche and Catherine Evans was the only one I could find in the Cardiff area. Thankyou for setting me straight! Do you think it is more probable that John Roche married Catherine Brian (or Brien, Bryan) in Ireland after 1851? This would explain why I could not find them in the 1851 census in Wales. In later censuses Francis' birthplace is given as Wales, so perhaps they moved to Wales shortly after marrying in Ireland? I wonder if there is any evidence for this? I only have it by word of mouth that they came from Bandon.

[heywood]

Irish records began in 1845 for non Catholic marriages and 1864 for Catholic marriages so you are perhaps going to need to search through Parish records and therefore have an idea of that.
I have tried to search parish registers through Ancestry using variations of the surnames, I can’t see anything yet.
I haven’t found a birth record for Francis, have you?
Do you have the family in 1861?
1871 5364/56/24 has these children named:

Francis 16 yrs
Thomas 12 yrs b 1859 Roche mmn Brien
William 9 Yrs Birth 1862  Roach mmn Brian
Maurice 7 Yrs
Charles 5 yrs Birth 1865 Roche Charles Allen mmn Brian
Simon 1 yr birth 1870 Roach mmn Brian

There is a birth for John Roach 1868 with mmn O’Brien, there is a likely death 1870 but no confirmed evidence it is the same family.

It would be good to find Francis’ birth and any others between him and Thomas in 1859 to aid the finding of a marriage.
1861 might clarify this.

[idyia14]

I have a transcript of a census record from 1861 - 4060/54/29 - which has
John Roach 30 Ireland
Catherine Roach 27 Ireland
Francis Roach 7 Wales
Thomas Roach 2 Wales
Charles Roach 0 Wales

I figured that Charles probably died because, in the next census, there is Charles Allen. I have found a birth for Charles in GRO, registered in Merthyr Tydfil in Dec Q 1860, mmn Brien, and a death in 1861 age zero, also registered in Merthyr Tydfil, which I think might be him. The family was living  in the Merthyr Tydfil district in the 1861 census.
 
Yes, John possibly belongs to the same family as the birth was registered in Cardiff as were those of other children born around the same time (Charles Allen, Simon.) If he died (as you say, there is no way to know if it is the same child, except that the age and registration district tie up) he would have missed the 1871 census.

I have not been able to find births for Francis or Maurice. Perhaps there were also births and deaths (or stillbirths, miscarriages) of others between Francis and Thomas which missed the 1861 census. I went looking but it is difficult because there are numerous configurations of different spelling of Roach and Brien to try when you don't know a first name or gender!

I've tried looking in Irish records to see if I could find a marriage between a John Roach/Roche and Catherine Brien/Brian/O'Brien/Bryan with no luck. The Bandon connection might be a red herring too.