Author Topic: Ah Khan Woll.  (Read 940 times)

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Ah Khan Woll.
« on: Friday 15 May 20 02:18 BST (UK) »
I am doing some research for my niece whose Great Great grandfather is AH KHAN WOLL I have found his marriage to Jane Jones 1860, birth of their first son WILLIAM WOLL (or Wall) in Ashby (Geelong) in 1861, I can't find a birth record for their second son JAMES born 1862 who is my nieces Great Grandfather,  though I have discovered admission records for both boys who were institutionalised for neglect, on those records Jame's birth date and place of birth is Scarsedale.

Jane is buried in Scarsedale cemetery died 1894.
 
Ah Khan Woll is also known as Chan Woll on William's birth cert, also known as Ah Can Woll in a heap of Victoria Police gazettes from early 1870s to 1879 under "Statement of arrears due". By 1879 this amount had risen to 53 pounds, a huge debt for that time.
What is this Arrears Due, is it spouse maintenance or some other debt?
After those police gazette records Ah Khan vanishes, any help appreciated.

James seems to have taken on the surname Wall either in the institution or soon after.
 
Apart from William's birth and institutionalisation he is a mystery. Help appreciated here too.
Scott Richards Collas Williams

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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #1 on: Friday 15 May 20 02:36 BST (UK) »
The debts are arrears for payment for the maintenance of children in the industrial and reformatory schools. He last paid in Dec. 1871 and was then at Brown's Diggings.  There were no updates to his whereabouts from that time.

Sue
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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #2 on: Friday 15 May 20 02:42 BST (UK) »
Thanks sparret, that's what I thought too, I feel sorry for those boys, they were in those institutions for a long time.
Scott Richards Collas Williams


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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 17 May 20 02:04 BST (UK) »
Still no joy tracking William, though there are quite a few records of a William Wall being a naughty bloke around the right time, These records don't mention Chinese appearance though, which I assume being half Chinese descent he would still look Chinese. Sorry that's not being rascist, sometimes you need to put yourself in the mindset of people of the time. Even today someone of Asian appearance is described that way

We managed to get James' marriage certificate, James married ELLEN WOODS in 1904.
From that we found that his father Ah Khan Woll is now James Wall and his mother is Jane Wall, That James (not the Ah Khan, James) was previously married to CATH HAMILTON in 1889 but she has died (more on that in a moment). No issue from the marriage.

WE then found James' divorce deposition 1899 and found Cath Hamilton was in fact very much alive, she had moved out and taken residence with some seedy types in what is essentially a brothel. There are quite a few mentions of her being arrested for vagrancy and petty theft. She seems to be hanging around with Chinese which could suggest that she is also Asian looking or part Asian descent. She had custody of her and James' daughter Lily who was removed by the police for neglect. At one time when Lily was 9 an old Chinaman from Egerton took her to the doctor in Ballarat and they were noticed by the police, they were arrested and they went to court, Lily was examined by the Doctor and was still intact so the Chinaman Ah Tie was released. Lily was recommended by the court to go to "the schools" (reform school) but was released into the care of her father.
I think that Lily was probably very Asian appearance and that is why she was rescued by Ah Tie.

After this there is no mention of Lily.

Ah Kan Woll alias James Wall could still be around at Scarsedale after Jane dies in 1894, there is a mention of a James Henry Wall marrying an Ada Emily Kate Datson in 1900. But there are several James Walls in Ballarat around this time, even a policeman at Warrenheip.

PROV and BDM is playing hard to get and the Ballarat Cemetery search is completely off,  so I am beating my head against a partly demolished brick wall at the moment.
Scott Richards Collas Williams

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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 17 May 20 05:11 BST (UK) »
I can help you with Ballarat Cemetery I think.
What exactly are we looking for?
Sue
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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 17 May 20 07:01 BST (UK) »
What information is on the death certificate of Jane WALL who died in 1894.
Who was the informant and what was stated about offspring, marriage etc?

I wonder if James at marriage really had much idea of his father's name and invented something that seemed acceptable for the times.

I think you can discount James Henry WALL of Scarsdale,
Here are news clips about her funeral.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208465019
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208464911

James Henry WALL voted in 1903, a resident of Scarsdale and a miner.

'Disqualification of coloured races. No aboriginal native of Australia, Asia, Africa or the Islands of the Pacific except New Zealand shall be entitled to have his name placed on an Electoral Roll unless so entitled under section forty-one of the Constitution.'

  There were exceptions to this, but just the same, this man seems unlikely as a candidate to me.

The spelling of Scarsdale is as I have it. I only mention it because you may get more hits in your searches with right spelling.

Sue
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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 17 May 20 08:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks again Sue.
I don't know how that wrong spelling of Scarsdale crept in, I should know, a good portion of my mums side of the family comes from there.

We don't have Jane's death cert yet. We have been attempting to track down other leads and just put Jane on slow simmer.

Thanks for that bit about the electoral roll, I presumed that would be the case, and also presuming it's a similar reason to why why nothing much else is recorded.

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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 17 May 20 09:24 BST (UK) »
Yes, Very often it was only negative behaviour on the part of Asian immigrants that was reported.

It seems likely that WOLL left town when it was known he owed such an amount for his children's care.

Jane JONES was your niece's g g grandmother. Certificates around her life events will be essential in building a strong history and support your further searches.

A worthwhile purchase in my opinion. ;D

Sue

 
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Re: Ah Khan Woll.
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 17 May 20 10:11 BST (UK) »
Janes Death Cert is not much value, the informant is a Authorised Agent.
A lot of unknowns, buried in Scarsdale cemetery on 10 Feb 1894
Married to Cann Wall, issue William and James. That's about it
Died of general debility and old age.
My neice wants to find the grave but I think that will have to wait until she can access Woadi Yalloak historical society. She walked the cemetery today but didn't find anything. Poor people don't have much in the way of grave markers.
I agree about him leaving town to escape the debt, I have had a look around NSW, but I imagine a name change would have gone with the disappearing.

We have Jane and Ah Khans Marriage cert, we got a lot of value from that. He was a cook she was a housemaid at a big homestead down near Mortlake. Taken over by the Dennis family in 1865 (of Dennis Family homes).

Scott Richards Collas Williams