Ah Khan Woll.

[sparrett]

Disappointing about the DC. But still a precious document to have.
Your niece will be lucky if there is any marker. Perhaps the best will be a general area for her interment.

A Chinese cook could find ready work anywhere in Australia at that time.  Possibly he moved on to the mines in a different states and put it all behind him!

I think his forward family will have known nothing of him except a vague name
A tough situation for all.

Sue

[rusted]

Thanks again Sue.

There are a few small things to follow up when places get their data bases up and running again, but realistically because of the Chinese heritage there's not going to be a lot we can find, Ah Khan Wall probably became Joe Bloggs and faded into the background in Bathurst or somewhere. William Wall probably did the same after a few run ins with the law. I shudder to think what may have happened to Lily, probably back to hanging around the shady areas near the Red Lion Hotel and York St Ballarat East.
I really wish they would release the digitised version of the Ballarat Courier.

[sparrett]

I will have a look through my Ballarat Cemetery resource for any sign of Lily.
What do you think was her date of birth?

Do you know what became of her mother apart from returning to the streets?
Was she using the surname WALL.
Sue

[majm]

Hi there,

I have a great deal of offline material for around the Central Western and Far Western areas of NSW for much of the 19th century.   May I mention that KHAN is often a surname associated with Cameleers from Afghanistan rather than from Cantonese Cooks, although 'AH' would be unlikely to be pointing to Cameleers. 

NSW State Archives : https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/

or https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research  - there's digitally available Gaol photos there for the surname KHAN.    There's also AH as a given name, and AH as a surname.

I will not have spare moments to check further for at least a couple of days, but I have added this thread to my TO DO list.

JM

[rusted]

Sue
LILY WALL was apparently born in 1890, Calculated from her father JAMES WALL divorce deposition.

Ballarat cemetery is back on line and she doesn't appear there as far as I can see.

LILY's mother CATHERINE WALL I found in a common grave in Ballarat cemetery, from that I found an inquest into her death in the Ballarat Mental Asylum in 1921.

Ballarat Cemetery and PROV are both back on line now, I have had a quick look through Reform and Industrial school records, court records and jail records but no luck finding LILY. She could be there but it would require a thorough search which I am not sure I really wish to do.

MAJM
Thanks for the offer, don't put too much effort in, AH KHAN WOLL had a huge debt at the end of the 1870s, then nothing is heard from him again, I think he vanished himself.
The marriage cert of AH KHAN WOLL and JANE JONES has him signing his name in Chinese characters. He was from Amoy? Canton, The certificate also has his parents but it's very difficult to distinguish which is father and mother. He was a cook. Jane was a housemaid.
I will have a look through those jail records later.

[Ruskie]

Rusted,

Have you managed to interpret his parent’s names from the marriage certificate. If not, there must be many people who can read (presumably Cantonese?) who can help you with that, and also determine which is the mother and which is father.

There are also online translators which can translate these characters I believe.

Good luck with this very difficult search. 

Added: For those who were in trouble with the law, have you checked the relevant documentation in case mug shots were taken? Sorry I don’t know if such things exist for your times and places, though I have seen them in other archives.

[rusted]

Thanks Russkie
The marriage cert is written by the minister so is not exactly illegible even though it is scrawl.
In the parents column Ah Khans parents are written as Mah Gow       
                                                                                  Tah Mi Woll
                                                                               maiden name Tahmi Hoy

That is a bit confusing, I presume Mah Gow is the father? Has the minister just omitted the Woll? Tah Mi Woll is the mother I presume as it has her maiden name.
Ah ha, now that I have written it out it looks so obvious that the minister left out the family name of the father. Not confusing at all.

Jane Jones parents are William Jones and Lydia Jones nee Roberts from Bangor Wales, fun tracing Jones and Roberts in Wales, not to worry I managed to build up a little family before all the Jones got too confusing.

[Ruskie]

I misunderstood and thought that the certificate contained Chinese characters. It probably would have been easier if it had done rather than having a western interpretation of the names. Very difficult for you. I presume the father's name would be the first name - same order as Jane's parents.

Chinese genealogy - there must be a way to research it, but it may require employing a specialist.

If you haven't already done so, ask for help with your Jones and Roberts on the Wales boards. There is some skill and knowledge required with the Welsh patronymic system and there are plenty who should be able to help you.

I don't know if this will be of any help as I have no idea of the uptake of DNA tests in China, but has your niece considered taking a DNA test? At the least she might find matches of Chinese descent living elsewhere in the world. With luck she may find that some of her matches might know more about that side of her family.

[rusted]

Thanks Russkie.
The biggest hurdle is that the Chinese were non people. As Sparret said unless they did something wrong they didn't exist.
Yes there are Chinese characters on the certificate Ah Khan signed his name in Chinese, that's all.

I had eyed off the Wales board, I will ask my niece if she wants to go further back with the Welsh side.

 She is new to genealogy and we are trying to teach her correct methods. We researched the sheep station where Ah Khan and Jane were married to see if we could squeeze any more information from it. We didn't find much but we had a lot of fun and found that that's where the Polwarth breed of sheep was developed. So we learnt something.