Author Topic: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire  (Read 794 times)

Offline DecoGal

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Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« on: Friday 15 May 20 10:11 BST (UK) »
Hi - this is my first post, so apologies if it is in the wrong place!
For a few years I've been stuck in regards to tracing the parents of my 3rd great grandmother (Agnes Dawson). I gave up a while back and made progress in other areas of my tree. I have now returned to this specific search - and I'm still stumped.

Here's the info I have so far:
My 3rd great grandmother appears on the 1871 census in Saddleworth Yorkshire, as Agnes Dawson (servant) born in Birkenhead approx 1851. She then marries John Norton in 1873 in Normanton Yorkshire. Their marriage entry lists a William Dawson (Bricklayer) as her father, and a Fanny Dawson witnesses the marriage.
In 1873, Agnes (now Norton) witnesses the marriage of a Frances Dawson to a Samuel Upton. This also occurred in Normanton Yorkshire, and Frances also lists her father as William Dawson (Bricklayer).
On the 1871 census, I have found Frances Dawson living in Birkenhead as a servant (approx dob 1852/1853) with the birth place listed as Birkenhead.
Based on this info, I think it's safe to assume that Frances (possibly also known as Fanny) and Agnes are sisters, both from Birkenhead, whose father was William, a bricklayer.

I have found both sisters and their husbands going forward, on the census' for 1881, 1891, and 1901 - unfortunately at no point do any other family members live with them (i.e. no father William or mother). Agnes lives in Yorkshire for the rest of her life, however Frances moves to Nottinghamshire.
I cannot find Agnes, Frances or their father William on any census prior to 1861 - in fact I cannot find William Dawson anywhere at all. Due to Agnes and Frances being born in Birkenhead (with Frances/Fanny stating New Brighton, Cheshire on a few census') I have focused my search in this area. I can't find a birth entry for the girl's either.

Some further digging into my 3rd great grandmother Agnes Dawson (then Norton after marriage) has provided some more info, although rather sad. Her husband dies in 1887, and then ten years later her 10 year old daughter (her namesake) drowns in Calder river (Yorkshire). This is detailed in a newspaper article and a coroner's report. Agnes then lives at the workhouse and is then admitted to the lunatic asylum in 1898. She seems to be there for about a year, however a few years later she is sent to prison for 14 days for being drunk. She dies in 1910 aged aprox 59.

Her son, John William Norton (my 2nd great grandfather) was sent to Calder Farm Boys Reformatory School, Yorkshire in 1891 for about 5 years, for stealing some rabbits. His admission form lists his uncle as Samuel Upton (Frances Dawson's husband) with an address in Nottinghamshire - which correlates with the info I have for Frances. Interestingly, a 'grandfather' is listed. It appears to state the shorthand for William (large W with small m), but the surname is odd. I actually can't make out what it says! I will attach a photo - I can't make out whether the first letter is an O, C or even maybe a J. The address is in Wakefield - I have searched the census (looked through all the scans pages) for that area and nothing has stood out. I can't actually find the house that is noted for this 'William' on John's admission document. I checked the name of John's other grandfather, and this does not match at all. I was hopeful that this grandfather was Willian Dawson - but now I'm not so sure.

I think what is most puzzling, is the absence of a William Dawson as a Bricklayer, in any census that I can find. I also can't find Agnes and Frances/Fanny living together in 1861 anywhere. Is it possible that they were going by a different name prior to 1871? If so, why then go by Dawson from the 1871 census? Could their mother have found another partner if William had died early on, so her children went by that name until they moved out? The absence of a birth entry as Dawson, particularly for Agnes with her being the elder, is most frustrating. I have also searched marriage entries with William Dawson (bricklayer) as the father to see if any other siblings have got married, and can't find any.

Any advice or hints would be gratefully received! Sometimes you look at something for so long, you need a fresh perspective!

Thanks in advance :)



Offline Milliepede

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #1 on: Friday 15 May 20 11:38 BST (UK) »
Hi and welcome, this looks an interesting one to try and solve.

I see Agnes put Wakefield for place of birth in 1881 which may tie in with the other Wakefield info you found. 

The surname looks like Chard, I wondered if it was Mr rather than Wm but either way. 

As both she and Frances put father William bricklayer less likely it was made up unless they colluded.

As you say no birth registrations under Dawson but can have a look for Agnes/Frances in 1861 without surname to see if any likely possibles show up, they must have been somewhere.
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #2 on: Friday 15 May 20 11:56 BST (UK) »
Not getting anywhere  :-\  thought about checking the children's birth registrations (children of Agnes and Frances) to see if by chance a different maiden name was shown.

Only tried Samuel Upton so far but mothers name Dawson.  Likely they will all have that but just an idea.

Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire


Offline Mckha489

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #3 on: Friday 15 May 20 12:40 BST (UK) »
Apropos of nothing but in Bridlington, Yorkshire in 1861

RG09
Piece number   3612
Folio   104
Page   23


Is a family indexed as ESNARD on FindMyPast, but in the image it has a lot of similarities to the entry that looks like Chard

Added to say itís ERHARD on Ancestry

There is a daughter Agnes but 10 years too young. 
currently concentrating on a number of Staffordshire families.

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #4 on: Friday 15 May 20 15:52 BST (UK) »
Interesting find it does look like the Chard word doesn't it.  And William was a bricklayer

Is there anything else on the document with grandfather on that might help us?
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #5 on: Friday 15 May 20 16:00 BST (UK) »
Wonder what the correct spelling actually is

Birth registration for that Agnes in Bridlington Mar 1860 is Ethert mothers name Coulson
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline arthurk

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #6 on: Friday 15 May 20 16:10 BST (UK) »
I wondered if the mystery surname was O'Hara, but that hasn't got me anywhere. However, I have found a Schofield's Yard on Westgate, Wakefield in the 1891 census - it begins at RG12/3749 fo48 p22. Allowing for mishearing, could this be it?

I didn't see any of the names you've mentioned there, though there was a Henry Quinn, a brick setter's labourer from Birkenhead, married to a Martha from Harrogate. Henry was 38, Martha 41. Maybe just a coincidence, though.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #7 on: Friday 15 May 20 16:16 BST (UK) »
It seems that there was a business proprietor in the Westgate area of Wakefield in the later decades of the 19th C. called "Scowby" - so that area may well have been described as "Scowby's Yard"
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline arthurk

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Re: Brick Wall - Dawsons in Cheshire and Yorkshire
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 May 20 16:20 BST (UK) »
I noticed that some of the yards (possibly in 1881?) seemed to be named after people living at the front on Westgate itself. I wonder - did the yards' names become firmly established, or did they change if the occupants at the front changed?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk