Author Topic: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire  (Read 657 times)

Offline idyia14

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Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« on: Sunday 17 May 20 08:47 BST (UK) »
I'd like to find out about the origins of Agnes Moore, born in 1881 in Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire, Wales.

The details that I know about her are as follows: On 26th August 1901 she married Cecil James Phoenix, in Penmaen, Monmouthshire. The couple had 2 children, Cyril John Phoenix born in 1905, and Irene Maud Phoenix, born in 1906. Cecil James Phoenix died in early 1909 and later that year Agnes married Rees Williams. They had 1 child (that I know of), Leo Rees Williams born in 1910. According to the 1939 register (when she was married to Rees Williams) her birth date was 10th August 1881. The 1911 census (with Rees Williams) has her birthplace as Aberbeeg.

I have also found an Agnes Moore in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census records that appears to be her.
In 1901 she is a servant in the household of Hugh Herbert Price (birthplace is Aberbeeg.) There is a William Moore in the same household.
In 1891 she is classed as "adopted" in the household of George Benson (birthplace is again Aberbeeg.) There is also an Oliver Moore in the same household as well as a Charles Simmons aged 27.
In the 1881 census she is 2 years old in the household of Frederick Symmonds and she is again classed as "adopted" (birthplace is Bedwellty which I believe to be the district for Aberbeeg.) Interestingly the son of the household is Charles Symmonds, aged 17, which seems very similar to the Charles Simons in the 1891 census, although the birthplace details do not match up.

Does anyone know anything that would help me clarify the origins of Agnes Moore?

Online KGarrad

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 17 May 20 09:16 BST (UK) »
Possibly this birth?

June qtr 1879
Newport Registration District     vol 11a, page 226

Moore, Agnes

Or maybe this one?

March atr 1877
Pontypridd Registration District     col 11a, page 381

Moore, Agnes


From the GRO Index site:

    MOORE, AGNES        (Mother's Maiden Name:) NICHOLAS     
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD  Volume 11A  Page 381

    MOORE, AGNES        WILLIAMS     
GRO Reference: 1879  J Quarter in NEWPORT  Volume 11A  Page 226
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline idyia14

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 17 May 20 09:59 BST (UK) »
Yes, I had found those. However, without actually seeing the details of these births (particularly date of birth) I couldn't reconcile either with the 1939 register which gives her birth date as 10th Aug 1881. She may not have admitted her age to her husband, Rees Williams, so the year might have been recorded incorrectly but I'd need to see the actual birth entry to convince myself on either one.


Online KGarrad

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 17 May 20 10:29 BST (UK) »
If the date of birth on the 1939 register is correct (and frequently they are wrong!), then it doesn't fit with the 1881 census?

There are no other births in the area for Agnes Moore.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline osprey

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 17 May 20 15:02 BST (UK) »
do you have either of her marriage certificates? An online transcription of her first marriage gives her father as William Moore, engineman and that fits with the man in the Ivorites Inn in 1901.

Possible burial for him in Llanhilleth 20 July 1907 age 73 address Pant Du Rd, Aberbeeg

1881 census Bottom of Pen y Vane Incline, Mynyddislwyn
William Moore head widower 48 stationary engine driver b. Somersetshire
Margaret Ann dau 19 housekeeper b. Bedwellty
Emily dau 14 b. Bedwellty
Addie dau 12 b. Bedwellty
William Enoch son 10 b. Bedwellty
Sarah Jane dau 8 b. Bedwellty
Alice Louisa dau 4 b. Glam, George Inn
Abraham father widower 74 annuitant b. Somersetshire

birth reg for William Enoch Moore dec qtr 1871 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 125 mmn Williams
Sarah Jane march qtr 1874 mmn Williams

possible death reg for William's wife, same quarter as birth of Agnes
Margaret Moore 39 june qtr 1878 Newport vol 11a pg 146
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 17 May 20 15:48 BST (UK) »
burials in Llanhilleth
6 Jan 1890 Alice Louisa Maud Moore 13 Aberbeeg
26 March 1893 William Enoch Moore age 20 of Ivorites Inn Aberbeeg

Margaret Ann Moore married Henry James 30 July 1883 in Nantyglo, father noted as William, engineman

marriage transcribed as Moon
27 May 1861 St George, Tredegar
William Moor 28 bach engineer Cwmsyfiog father Abraham Moor, engineer
Margaret Williams 22 spinster Cwmsyfiog  father William Williams (deceased)
witnesses Richard Price & Mary Lewis, all marked.

1851 census 4 Patch, Tredegar HO107/2448 folio 158 pg 29
Abraham Moore head mar 41 engineer b. Somerset, Kilmersdon
Mary wife 37 b. Kilmersdon
William son 19 engineer b. Kilmersdon
Enoch son 17 b. Kilmersdon
Sarah dau 13 b. Mon, Trevethin
Lydia dau 9 b. Bedwellty
Zebedee son 7 b. Bedwellty
Abraham son 5 b. Bedwellty
Mary dau 3 b. Bedwellty
John son 1 b. Bedwellty

likely marriage 24 Dec 1831 in Kilmersdon Abraham Moore & Mary Padfield, sojourner, witnesses John Padfield & William Milward.

map for 1851 address
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ph2/
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 17 May 20 16:16 BST (UK) »
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline idyia14

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #7 on: Monday 18 May 20 08:48 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all of this! Unfortunately I do not have copies of Agnes' marriages and the transcript that I have of her 1901 marriage to Cecil James Phoenix did not include her father's name and profession. Following the family through the records you have found because of those facts, it makes perfect sense. It certainly appears that Agnes' mother died around her birth. It would also fit with the 1881 census record that I found, with Agnes Moor being adopted by a couple from Somerset. I guess we'll never know the true circumstances but I would imagine that William Moore could have farmed out the baby girl who brought about his wife's death.

I have found GRO index records for all of the other children, Margaret Ann (1862), Emily (1866), Adelaide (1869) and Alice (1876), all of them having mmn of Williams, too, which fits with the 1879 birth registration of Agnes Moore in Newport.

It would certainly seem that the date of birth on the 1939 Register was incorrect, in the year at least. The 1911 census also implies that she was born in 1881 but I wonder if that was because she was actually older than her new husband, Rees Williams? He was born in 1880.

Offline Kay99

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Re: Agnes Moore Born 1881 Aberbeeg, Monmouthshire
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 May 20 09:29 BST (UK) »
The image of the 1901 marriage is on FindMyPast and her age is listed as 22 which fits in with the earlier birth. 

Kay