Author Topic: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)  (Read 1238 times)

Offline davidgp

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 23 May 20 18:09 BST (UK) »
Very interesting information about the ages - I'll have to check my dates. Love the story about the Prussians!
David

Offline Rena

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 23 May 20 18:59 BST (UK) »
It's still possible to find migration dates for Auswanderers but unfortunately I don't have the current website information. 

In the 19th century permission had to be given in writing in triplicate for you and your family to migrate, or even just to leave your village. This travel document had to be shown to all border guards along your route. Your application would then be pinned to the town hall doors for all the locals.  This was to forwarn creditors that they might not receive payment for debts and inform employers that their apprentices wanted to leave town and they (the creditors & employers) should notify the town elders not to give permission to leave. 

If an ancestor went into the Hanovarian/Hessian army; from memory:- all their barracks in England were along the south coast and he might make his way to London at the end of his service.

If an ancestor was a key worker, such as a teacher, or he was the local miller, he might not be granted permission to leave the area and the local newspapers would give the list of all the families who had sneaked away in the middle of the night. It seems the only people allowed to travel freely were musicians.  These illegal migrants wouldn't use Bremen and Hamburg ports of departure; instead they'd travel to Denmark or France to catch a ferry boat to England.  I think mine travelled aboard a fishing boat and landed in The Wash, Norfolk.   Those who travelled to Denmark had to stay in the town three weeks before they approached the passenger ship booking office where they had to give their local address. 

In case you haven't looked at them the familysearch wiki webpages give migration information:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Germany_Emigration_and_Immigration#Permission_To_Emigrate_Records

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Hesse_(Hessen)_Online_Genealogy_Records

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Denmark_Emigration_and_Immigration#Passenger_Lists

https://www.germanroots.com/emigration.html
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline davidgp

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 23 May 20 19:19 BST (UK) »
That information is so helpful - thankyou.

My G Grandfather was born in 1843 - there's a potential sighting of him working as a pot boy in Lambeth in 1871. By 1876 he was lodging in Swansea - he married the widow of the local publican and tranferred the licence of her beer house to himself when she was pregnant with their first child. I've only a vague idea of where he came from and suspect he was working sailing ships from Stralsund in the Baltic with logs for Welsh pitprops - I may well be wrong.

I'll be following up your leads - again, thanks
David

Offline suecapon

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 23 May 20 20:55 BST (UK) »
Rena : Thank you so much for the information, and the links - I will check them out.
Much appreciated. X


Offline Rena

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 24 May 20 02:31 BST (UK) »
That information is so helpful - thankyou.

My G Grandfather was born in 1843 - there's a potential sighting of him working as a pot boy in Lambeth in 1871. By 1876 he was lodging in Swansea - he married the widow of the local publican and tranferred the licence of her beer house to himself when she was pregnant with their first child.
David

If you do some background history work on Swansea, you might find that the population increased enormously within a short space of time.  This meant the water would be contaminated and it was thought ale wasn't such a killer as water, so it was sensible for your ancestor to take up the pub tenancy 
When I was researching my Saxon ancestor in the UK, he seemed to be tied in some way to another immigrant and I found mention of that one in the local newspaper when a customer had to replace one of pubs windows that he'd broken. 

Local libraries often provide access for their members to the online digital British Newspaper library.

Another source of information is "historical directories",(Piggots Directories/Post Office Directories/etc)  where you could search by name, year, district.  I've now seen that the website has changed dramatically and I'm not too keen on it :- 
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4 

Bankruptcies had to be publicly notified, as had some last wills and testaments, where the deceased didn't appear to have any relatives living locally - I found my father's brother's Will notification in the gazette
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline garstonite

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 24 May 20 06:59 BST (UK) »
Obviously we have no idea where he left from - Tate and Lyle  - had a huge factory here in Liverpool and employed German sugar boilers - the word is here in Liverpool that UK imported a huge amount of POTASH from Germany - Hamburg to Liverpool - and used to stop at the Isle of Wight on the way - so a vast amount of Germans in the 1800's came on these boats - just to let you know how many Germans came to Liverpool - on the German Potash Coasters - coasters are Merchant ships that just go coast to coast - not deep sea ..in Liverpool they had to register the day they landed and have an address to go to - the German list is huge - have a look - sadly no Nauer .registered as MERSEYDIDE ALIENS

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/merseysidealiens/
ADDED
just rang my brother who books in the ships at Garston Dock - Nitrate of Potash = SALTPETRE - used in cigarettes to keep them burning - and Liverpool had a few Tobbacco factories - so that is why they came to Liverpool -Imperial Tobacco and Ogdens are 2 huge factories  that I remember

oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline Rena

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 24 May 20 14:54 BST (UK) »
Obviously we have no idea where he left from - Tate and Lyle  - had a huge factory here in Liverpool and employed German sugar boilers - the word is here in Liverpool that UK imported a huge amount of POTASH from Germany - Hamburg to Liverpool - and used to stop at the Isle of Wight on the way - so a vast amount of Germans in the 1800's came on these boats - just to let you know how many Germans came to Liverpool - on the German Potash Coasters - coasters are Merchant ships that just go coast to coast - not deep sea ..in Liverpool they had to register the day they landed and have an address to go to - the German list is huge - have a look - sadly no Nauer .registered as MERSEYDIDE ALIENS

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/merseysidealiens/
ADDED
just rang my brother who books in the ships at Garston Dock - Nitrate of Potash = SALTPETRE - used in cigarettes to keep them burning - and Liverpool had a few Tobbacco factories - so that is why they came to Liverpool -Imperial Tobacco and Ogdens are 2 huge factories  that I remember

The number of Germans in Liverpool is reflected in the number of Lutheran Churches.  In my opinion, the Lutheran churches kept better bmd records than the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish churches.

The history of the port of Kingston Upon Hull on the east coast of England shows that during one year two million Germans landed and caught the train to Liverpool.  Most migrants wanted to go to the USA and there were two reasons for not sailing directly.  The reason being that German built sailing ships at that time were known not to arrive at their destination but to be lost in transit, thus travellers preferred more reliable shipping.  One sad thing about the migrants is that not every booking Agent on the continent was honest and it was only when the migrants reached the English ports for the ships to pick up supplies did they discover the Agent had pocketed money for the full journey but had only organised travel partway.

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online sugarbakers

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Re: How did Gt Grandfather get to the UK ( 1880's)
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 24 May 20 15:48 BST (UK) »
This more general essay on the settlement of Germans in Britain may be of interest ...

www.mawer.clara.net/ppanayi.html

My own fruitless search for a German ancestor is centred around arrival in London about 1790 - too early for ships lists, no naturalisation papers even though he eventually owned his own business, no attendance at the German churches where his origin would have been recorded [I have to agree with Rena here], and death far too early for the censuses.
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen). Mawer, Softley, Johnson, Lancaster, Tatum, Bucknall (E.Yorks, Nfk, Lincs)

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
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