General Discussion on Current Situation 2/

[Gan Yam]

Either single parent families or where both parents were ill.  Also the lockdown guidance was that people could have travelled to give aid so his family in Durham travelling to pick up their son should the need arise would have been safer.

So if both Dominc and his wife died in the night (many people have died withing a few hours of showing symptoms) the 4 year old could phone his relations in Durham and arrange for them to pick him up

Guy

DC and his wife are both under 50 and the likelihood that they would both die within 24 hours of contracting the virus, while not impossible, is improbable.  Thousands of families will have faced this situation over the last few months.  Some families face this all the time for reason of illness other than covid.  The internet and local news are scattered with stories of children as young as 3 phoning the emergency services because mum or dad has collapsed or fallen due to a health condition.

I understand where Pharma is coming from.  The Government has said that DC acted in the best interests of his family and acted with "integrity" and the implication that I take from that is those who faced with the same or similar scenario and didn't take the same action and stayed at home don't have that same integrity.

The inference is that as long as you act in the best interests in your family, then its fine .

If Robert Jenrick visited his parents "to take supplies" and was acting in the best interests of his elderly parents, one of them over 70 putting them in the clinically vulnerable group, and did not apologise for his trip, then why was the same standard not applied to Stephen Kinnock, who did apologise.  His parents are over 70 and in the same clinically vulnerable group as Mr Jenricks. Was Stephen Kinnock not also acting in his families best interests, taking supplies to his vulnerable elderly parents.  Accepted it was his father's birthday, but would his "breaking of the regulations" been more acceptable if he had gone the day before or the day after.

 

 No need for saying sorry Igor,none of what most said on here cuts any ice with me,and I would'nt know what being selfish is...........most of the argument from the media and elswhere is from the anti-brexit,anti Boris and Cummings brigade...the wickness,cruelty and plain ignorance in front of Mr Cummings property and his wife and child is absolutely disgusting....draw a line end of story.

I don't think that anyone would condone the scenes outside DCs home, and it is absolutely inappropriate. 

If you accept that the arguments that the condemnation is only from the anti-Brexit group, which I don't, then you have to accept that Robert Jenrick and Dominic Cummings did no wrong as because they are pro Brexit and Stephen Kinnock acted wrongly because he was anti Brexit.

[Skoosh]

Typo, should be,  "Barnard Castle, A Site for Sore Eyes!" 

The Wee Ginger Dug here,

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2020/05/27/not-better-together/

Skoosh.

[Millmoor]

I find myself in agreement with the likes of  Julia Hartley - Brewer, Peter Bone, Steve Baker and Tim Montgomerie - all noted Brexiteers - for the first time in my life and all of whom believe that DC ought to go. The anti Brexit line just does not wash.

William

[Ray T]

Given   that Cummings drove 260 miles to his parents  home  while  he and /or his wife  were showing symptoms  of Covid19 to a place  on his parents farm (nothing  very much you know, just concrete blocks really) where they could self isolate

Sounds like just the place for a "straightforward shooting weekend".

[arthurk]

So if both Dominc and his wife died in the night (many people have died withing a few hours of showing symptoms) the 4 year old could phone his relations in Durham and arrange for them to pick him up

It was very fortunate for the child, then, that his parents didn't die en route to Durham. Mind you, since DC said he covered 30 miles in 30 minutes on ordinary roads, some of which are subject to a 30 mph speed limit, maybe he thought he could do the 250 or so miles in well under 4 hours and it was worth taking a chance. It's not like being ill or having passengers who were ill would make him slow down, is it?

The above is the statement from Durham Police, I notice Norman Smith changed the above statement to fit the lies the BBC are repeating about the trip to London and to Barnard Castle. It is worrying that a reporter with Norman Smith's experience has to resort to lying about the statement.

The biggest problem I have seen is people believe certain newspapers and even the BBC who are using the covid-19 outbreak as a weapon to try to get rid of someone they object to by misquoting what is said. The UK has long past the time when lynch mobs could hunt down and string up their victims but these groups still have that mentality.

You make some quite serious allegations about the press and BBC here, but they cannot be treated as credible unless you provide some evidence. How did they lie or misquote? Please tell us what they said or wrote, with a link to the source, and let us read it for ourselves. Otherwise what you are saying is just hearsay, and no better than what you are complaining about in others.

Finally, I repeat my question of yesterday afternoon, which you have still not answered:

And Guy - do you consider it to have been within the letter and/or spirit of the guidelines for DC to have returned to work, even though his wife was thought to have COVID-19 symptoms and he was worried that he might also have the virus?

[Guy Etchells]

So if both Dominc and his wife died in the night (many people have died withing a few hours of showing symptoms) the 4 year old could phone his relations in Durham and arrange for them to pick him up

It was very fortunate for the child, then, that his parents didn't die en route to Durham. Mind you, since DC said he covered 30 miles in 30 minutes on ordinary roads, some of which are subject to a 30 mph speed limit, maybe he thought he could do the 250 or so miles in well under 4 hours and it was worth taking a chance. It's not like being ill or having passengers who were ill would make him slow down, is it?

Did he cover 30 miles in 30 minutes, do you know where his father's farm is it could be less than 30 miles or it could be more?

The above is the statement from Durham Police, I notice Norman Smith changed the above statement to fit the lies the BBC are repeating about the trip to London and to Barnard Castle. It is worrying that a reporter with Norman Smith's experience has to resort to lying about the statement.

The biggest problem I have seen is people believe certain newspapers and even the BBC who are using the covid-19 outbreak as a weapon to try to get rid of someone they object to by misquoting what is said. The UK has long past the time when lynch mobs could hunt down and string up their victims but these groups still have that mentality.

You make some quite serious allegations about the press and BBC here, but they cannot be treated as credible unless you provide some evidence. How did they lie or misquote? Please tell us what they said or wrote, with a link to the source, and let us read it for ourselves. Otherwise what you are saying is just hearsay, and no better than what you are complaining about in others.

The Durham Police statement of 28 May 2020 states-
“Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings’ press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.

Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.”
I recorded the BBC News on the 28th May and transcribed what Norman Smith stated just after the news of the police statement was released.
Norman Smith stated the Durham Police stated - “...but the trip to Barnard Castle was a minor breach. However they are not going to take any action, they say they record it as a minor brach of the rules and had a police officer stopped Dominic Cummings on that day because he wasn't putting social distancing or anyone else at risk the police officer would probably have said look you can't do that go home behave yourself, and there would be no further action.”

The differences may seem small, but in a high profile incident such as they even subtle differences change the meaning considerably

Finally, I repeat my question of yesterday afternoon, which you have still not answered:

And Guy - do you consider it to have been within the letter and/or spirit of the guidelines for DC to have returned to work, even though his wife was thought to have COVID-19 symptoms and he was worried that he might also have the virus?

I view the trip to Durham as legal and according to not only the Coronavirus Act 2020 but also according to the 2020 No. 250 Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020.
As for the trip to Barnard Castle I view it as a sensible thing to do before driving back down to London.
I have done something very similar after an illness and I used to take drivers who's driving  I was responsible for on a test drive before they could drive coaches when I was the person holding the National & International CPCs for the coach firm they worked for. The BBC like many others tried to make out it was an eyesight test but in reality it was a fitness to drive test he took.

Cheers
Guy

[groom]

     As for the trip to Barnard Castle I view it as a sensible thing to do before driving back down to London.
I have done something very similar after an illness         

Just where does it say that is acceptable in the Highway Code? I doubt very much if that would be accepted as an excuse if the person doing it had an accident and killed someone. You are either fit to drive or you aren’t. If you think you need to go on a test drive then you obviously aren’t sure you are fit to drive and shouldn’t do it! Not only are you putting your life and that of any passengers at risk, but you are also endangering other road users. 

[Ray T]

The, so called, “farm” is “North Lodge”; on the western side of the A167 and backing onto the Durham City Golf Club. It’s between 25 and 30 miles to Barney from there but exactly how far depends upon where in Barney he went.

As I’ve said previously, you don’t just “find yourself on the edge of...” town as from the Durham direction the edge is only a couple of hundred yards from the centre. The river, on the other hand, which gets an honourable mention, is out the other side of town - down the main street, round the castle, down the hill and over the bridge - and further from the centre than what I’d imagine someone thinking they’d arrived on the edge of town. They could, of course, have parked at the top and walked down which is, in fact, shorter.

Has anyone bothered to ask whether Mrs Cummings can drive?

[IgorStrav]

Has anyone bothered to ask whether Mrs Cummings can drive?

The first sentence of the (misleading) article Mary Wakefield (Mrs Cummings) wrote for the Spectator about their C-19 lockdown mentions her driving.

Yes, she can drive