Author Topic: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection  (Read 585 times)

Offline MJW

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Following an Ancestry DNA test, my closest DNA match (Henry Vila) is a mystery and I've been trying to work out for months how we are connected. Shared DNA is 116 cM across 7 segments.  I've seen the various suggestions & probabilities on Ancestry & DNA Painter but nothing really stands out.

I've discovered that his daughter has also taken a test, shared DNA is only 8 cM across 3 segments. 

Can I read anything into these 2 test results to help me work out my most likely relationship with Henry ?

Thanks Malcolm

N.B. There's some background in a previous post (on Ireland Tipperary board) if anyone is interested, although it's not strictly relevant to this post.   https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=831192.0


Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

Offline rlw254

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 28 May 20 20:59 BST (UK) »
That doesn't help you very much. At 116 cM I might expect that you share great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents with the person.

Offline MJW

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 28 May 20 22:15 BST (UK) »
That doesn't help you very much. At 116 cM I might expect that you share great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents with the person.
From trying to see how Henry might be connected (and also based on his age) I thought that some form of 2nd or 3rd cousin is most likely, so sharing great or greatx2 grandparents.  I've seen suggestions from Ancestry & DNA Painter for first cousins, 2 or 3 times removed, but these don't seem to fit our respective ages.  Some of the suggestions/probabilities from these sites for his daughter just don't fit with what I think is feasible for Henry.  Based on these, I think the most likely might be 3rd cousin for Henry & 3rd cousin once removed for his daughter.  Does that seem reasonable?
 
Thanks ..... Malcolm
Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only


Offline Gadget

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 28 May 20 22:38 BST (UK) »
I've been looking at mt matches for something similar to you ~

I have a 3rd cousin with  whom I share 103 cm (Range  - 0-234)   and one of her grand daughters(3C2R)  is 29 cM.

In your case, a 3C1R is possible for the daughter (range - 0-192) but are you sure that it's a daughter rather than  granddaughter?


Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #4 on: Friday 29 May 20 09:55 BST (UK) »
Have you tried using the matches you share with him to narrow down where in your tree he may connect?
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn

Offline MJW

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #5 on: Friday 29 May 20 17:58 BST (UK) »
I've been looking at mt matches for something similar to you ~

I have a 3rd cousin with  whom I share 103 cm (Range  - 0-234)   and one of her grand daughters(3C2R)  is 29 cM.

In your case, a 3C1R is possible for the daughter (range - 0-192) but are you sure that it's a daughter rather than  granddaughter?


Gadget

Thanks Gadget.  I thought 8 cM for the daughter seemed low.  It's definitely the daughter's DNA test (unless for some reason she has put her name to a test for someone else).

I'm being careful not to name people as, although Henry is deceased, his children are not.  I have tried to contact the daughter through Ancestry but had no response.

Malcolm
Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

Offline MJW

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #6 on: Friday 29 May 20 17:59 BST (UK) »
Have you tried using the matches you share with him to narrow down where in your tree he may connect?

Thanks Craclyn.  Yes, I've checked all 8 shared matches (and also looked at their shared matches) and tried to contact them all. Some have trees (not all) but there's nothing in them that helps and certainly no mention of Henry or his surname. Unfortunately, most matches have not replied and some haven't been on Ancestry for many months.

Malcolm
Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

Offline Gadget

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #7 on: Friday 29 May 20 20:02 BST (UK) »
I've had another look through my matches.

I have a 120 cM shared match with a 3rd cousin who also shares 22cM with my great nephew. However, his sister (my great niece) must share  less than 6cMs with her as she doesn't show up in her matches.

Note - that I have access to both of  their DNA records and, in case anyone queries, they are definitely B & S, sharing over 2500 cMs across 73.

Gadget

PS - I think I'd investigate the info about the father/child link.  Are you sure they say that? It could well be grandfather/granddaughter
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline MJW

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Re: Ancestry DNA matches for father & daughter - any thoughts on connection
« Reply #8 on: Friday 29 May 20 23:10 BST (UK) »
I've had another look through my matches.

I have a 120 cM shared match with a 3rd cousin who also shares 22cM with my great nephew. However, his sister (my great niece) must share  less than 6cMs with her as she doesn't show up in her matches.

Note - that I have access to both of  their DNA records and, in case anyone queries, they are definitely B & S, sharing over 2500 cMs across 73.

Gadget

PS - I think I'd investigate the info about the father/child link.  Are you sure they say that? It could well be grandfather/granddaughter

That's an interesting set of cM numbers.

Everything I've seen points to them being father & daughter.  If you've read my previous posts you'll see that I discovered that Henry died on the same day he'd sent me a message saying that he was born in New York City in 1930 and his birth mother was Nora Barrett.  His obituary, which I found online, confirms this and names his daughter (also giving her married name), there's nobody else with that name. There is a granddaughter named but a different forename. His daughter has a small tree on Ancestry and although most people are shown as private, the numbers & genders match details from the obituary. I've also found other supporting information online naming Henry and his daughter, and their ages (Henry born 1930, died 2019 - daughter age 60+ from Ancestry profile).

All very confusing, a real mystery.  It's because of the circumstances around how Henry contacted me on the day he died that I feel a real need to find how we are connected.

Looking at cM numbers, Henry was my highest DNA match (1 of 3 listed under the heading "3rd Cousin"). The next 2 were 114 cM & 100 cM, I've traced these and they are, respectively, 2nd cousin once removed & 3rd cousin.

Any further thoughts most welcome.

Thanks again . Malcolm


Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only