Livermoor baptisms without a forename

[LizzieL]

I have found two baptisms for children of James Livermoor in Saffron Walden.

The first says
[blank] of James and [blank] Livermoor.

It is in a section headed December 1710 and although there is no date immediately by the entry, there is a baptism for a different family above it with the date 13. But below are baptisms for 8th and then 5th.

The second one : January 1711 (actually 1712 as it comes after Dec 1711)
16 [blank] daughter of James [quite a large space] Livermoor

At least I know the sex of the second child.

I had thought they may be sickly children and baptised quickly before they died, but there are no corresponding burials for "a child of James Livermoor".

Was it common for a baby to be baptised without giving him/her a forename, or was it sloppy record keeping by the vicar?

Is there any hope of finding out who they are?

One of my DNA matches has identified the daughter baptised in 1712 as Susanna Livermore and has her marrying James Overell, but as this marriage was on 13 Jan 1726 1727, I think she has the wrong bride as her Susanna would be about 14. I have the same couple on my tree, but my Susan(na) was baptised on 1 Jul 1701 - coincidentally daughter of a James.

modified to correct date. Rechecked entry and it was the Jan that came after Dec 1726

[cuffie81]

Have you seen the earlier entry?

July 1709
4  A child of James Levirmore  sine[?] - Dead

Could sine be the Latin for without? Without mother? But if the mother was dead, who was the mother of the subsequent children? Or does it refer to the child?


Looking through the register there are quite a few entries without the child's forename and most of them do at least record the sex of the child so it does seem strange to omit the forename, if known.

I realise this doesn't help much, if at all, in answering your questions. Hopefully someone else with more experience can chime in.

[cuffie81]

There are a couple of burials of children of a James Levormore/Levirmore around this time. It looks like the 1709 burial could well be the child baptised 4 July which could tally with your idea of sickly children being baptised quickly. It might be worth checking baptisms of other unnamed children, of any couple, against the the burials to see if there's a pattern.

Burials:
August 1708
6 A child of James Levormore?

Jul 1709
10 A child of James Levirmore

There's a note below the 1709 entry, but between entries, 'of John son?'. It's not clear to me which entry it's for.

There are some earlier baptisms, 1696 onwards, in Saffron Walden for a James & Katherine/Catrine.

[LizzieL]

Thank you very much. I hadn't gone as far back as 1696. I'll look for a marriage for James and Catrin (or similar) and burials. Looking at marriages around the period of those rather sketchy baptisms, I see some just recorded as a couple from xxx with a licence. It's in same handwriting so it looks like the vicar was sloppy or wrote them up later from his not very good memory. Such a contrast for the records around 1696, such good clear writing.

[LizzieL]

Just looked at the 1709 burial. the "of John, son" looks like it refers to the record below not the Livermore child.
Interesting that many of the records give the burial place. So many actually buried within the church. The rich people who could pay for the privilege no doubt.

[LizzieL]

A possible marriage, unfortunately just across the border in Cambridgeshire, so I can only find a transcript.
James Livermore and Catherine Mosely on 9 Oct 1694 at Little Abington.
He could be the James bapt in SW on 16 Jan 1670 s/o James and Sarah Livermore.