Author Topic: Death date  (Read 1044 times)

Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Death date
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 07 June 20 19:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Rosie,

Thanks for your reply.  I've seen John Waldron Partis a few times on searches but I can't help but think this isn't the same man. When John's son got married the father's name was John Richard Partis. No mention of Waldron.

I'm still left scratching my head about this.

Marriage Dec qtr 1841   
ALDERTON    Mary       
PARTIS    John Waldron       
St Pancras    1   279

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Death date
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 07 June 20 23:01 BST (UK) »

deleted, apologies


Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Death date
« Reply #20 on: Monday 08 June 20 02:01 BST (UK) »
The marriage you refer to in Newington to Martha Mepham is also what I have seen but on Findmypast it also states an option of Mary Clark.


I looked, it gives 4 options for a spouse as the GRO indexed 4 marriages on that page and at that time they did not cross reference the bride and groom, so we (and Find My Past) don't know which of the 4 was the bride of John Partis.
The options were: Mary Clark, Martha Mepham, Susan Trim, Hannah Sells

I have access to the parish marriage registers and checked them
St Mary Newington
page 108, entry 216 John Walton married Susan Trim
page 109, entry 217 John Partis married Martha Mepham
page 109, emtry 218 George Butchard married Mary Clark
page 110, entry 219 George Batchelor married Hannah Sells

The entry for John Partis says he was of full age a Bachelor, occupation pastry cook and his Dad was John Partis a shipwright. Those details for his father do not match with the baptism record you have and say you are sure about.

re-cap of info given already in this thread:

 John Waldron Partis married a Mary Alderton Q4 1841 St Pancras vol 1 page 271

The image for that marriage in the parish register is here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSFH-QSBF-S?i=199&cat=135902

you need to sign into family search (its free to create and use an account)  to see the image
That entry says that John Waldren Partis was of full age, a bachelor, ocupation painter, father Richard, a butcher.
and those father's details DO match with the baptism record.

1851 census Piece 1496, folio30, page52 (indexed on FindMyPast as PARTES)
John Partis Head married age 37, occ Painter ,born NORTHUMBERLAND
Mary Ann wife 32 born B*nstead, Hampshire
Mary Ann daughter, age 8
John son age 7
Mary daughter age 5
Emma daughter age 2
Ellen daughter age 0

1861 census (indexed on FindMyPast as PARKIS)
 RG09/96 f122 p76 - St Pancras

John Waldson Partis   47   occ   Painter   bn Morpeth, Northumberland
Mary   46   bn Hampshire
Mary A 18   
Williams T    9   
Henry J  7   
George F    2   


1871 census Piece 203 folio 43 page 78

John Partis Head, 57, occ House Painter, born Morpeth, Northumberland
Mary wife 52, born Binsted Hampshire
William son, 19 occ painter's labourer
George, son 12, scholar

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ - need to sign up for a free account to search
This site gives mother's maiden names for births and ages at death for all years
1842 Q3 St Pancras Mary Ann PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
1844 Q1 Stepney John Richard PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
1845 Q3 St Pancras Maria Elizabeth PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q2 1853- St Pancras, age 8
1848 Q3 St Pancras Emma Grace PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q1 1856 St Pancras, age 7
1850 Q3 St Pancras Ellen Jane PARTIS mmn ALDERTON  - died Q1 1856 St Pancras, age 5
1852 Q1 St Pancras William Thomas PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
1853 Q4 St Pancras Henry Joseph PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q2 1866 St Pancras aged 13
1859 Q1 Pancras George Frederick PARTIS mmn ALDERTON

John Waldron Partis died Q3 1871 St Pancras aged 57, burial 07 Aug 1871, Camden

in 1863 Mary Ann Partis married Robert Cambridge Woodard at Trinity Church Marylebone, her father was recorded as John Waldron Partis, a painter. He was a witness and signed John W Partis

According to William Thomas Partis' marriage record to Ann Elizabeth Turner in 1887, Lincoln St Swithin his dad was, as you say, John Richard Partis a painter. Please bear in mind you don't know WHO gave the info, and whoever did may have thought as he had a brother called John Richard that his Dad was also John Richard - or it may have been given as John Waldron when they first went along to arrange for the banns to be read, the vicar, as they did, scribbled the info on a piece of paper and misread it when he wrote out the register in advance ready for them to sign . I've seen odder errors. In later census years William Thomas is shown as being born in 1852, London which is either a good match for the above census returns and birth reg or a big co-incidence.

Given all the above, I really think that on balance this is the family you are looking for. The chances of another John Partis, who was born c1813 in Morpeth, Dad Richard, a butcher ending up in London are slim. I can't explain the sudden appearance of a middle name Waldren but the rest of the evidence has enough checking points on birthplaces and ages to make it all highly likely.

Only you can decide though, its not my family :-)

Boo



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Re: Death date
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 12:23 BST (UK) »
I really like your recap Tickettyboo. I often get completely confused when reading threads on rootschat, so this is brilliant. I hope the op appreciated it too.

Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Death date
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 12:35 BST (UK) »
Hello Boo,

Wow thank you so much for all this info. I really appreciate your time looking into it. I have taken a screen shot to keep referencing your info!

You're a star - thanks again  ;D

The marriage you refer to in Newington to Martha Mepham is also what I have seen but on Findmypast it also states an option of Mary Clark.


I looked, it gives 4 options for a spouse as the GRO indexed 4 marriages on that page and at that time they did not cross reference the bride and groom, so we (and Find My Past) don't know which of the 4 was the bride of John Partis.
The options were: Mary Clark, Martha Mepham, Susan Trim, Hannah Sells

I have access to the parish marriage registers and checked them
St Mary Newington
page 108, entry 216 John Walton married Susan Trim
page 109, entry 217 John Partis married Martha Mepham
page 109, emtry 218 George Butchard married Mary Clark
page 110, entry 219 George Batchelor married Hannah Sells

The entry for John Partis says he was of full age a Bachelor, occupation pastry cook and his Dad was John Partis a shipwright. Those details for his father do not match with the baptism record you have and say you are sure about.

re-cap of info given already in this thread:

 John Waldron Partis married a Mary Alderton Q4 1841 St Pancras vol 1 page 271

The image for that marriage in the parish register is here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSFH-QSBF-S?i=199&cat=135902

you need to sign into family search (its free to create and use an account)  to see the image
That entry says that John Waldren Partis was of full age, a bachelor, ocupation painter, father Richard, a butcher.
and those father's details DO match with the baptism record.

1851 census Piece 1496, folio30, page52 (indexed on FindMyPast as PARTES)
John Partis Head married age 37, occ Painter ,born NORTHUMBERLAND
Mary Ann wife 32 born B*nstead, Hampshire
Mary Ann daughter, age 8
John son age 7
Mary daughter age 5
Emma daughter age 2
Ellen daughter age 0

1861 census (indexed on FindMyPast as PARKIS)
 RG09/96 f122 p76 - St Pancras

John Waldson Partis   47   occ   Painter   bn Morpeth, Northumberland
Mary   46   bn Hampshire
Mary A 18   
Williams T    9   
Henry J  7   
George F    2   


1871 census Piece 203 folio 43 page 78

John Partis Head, 57, occ House Painter, born Morpeth, Northumberland
Mary wife 52, born Binsted Hampshire
William son, 19 occ painter's labourer
George, son 12, scholar

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ - need to sign up for a free account to search
This site gives mother's maiden names for births and ages at death for all years
1842 Q3 St Pancras Mary Ann PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
1844 Q1 Stepney John Richard PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
1845 Q3 St Pancras Maria Elizabeth PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q2 1853- St Pancras, age 8
1848 Q3 St Pancras Emma Grace PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q1 1856 St Pancras, age 7
1850 Q3 St Pancras Ellen Jane PARTIS mmn ALDERTON  - died Q1 1856 St Pancras, age 5
1852 Q1 St Pancras William Thomas PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
1853 Q4 St Pancras Henry Joseph PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q2 1866 St Pancras aged 13
1859 Q1 Pancras George Frederick PARTIS mmn ALDERTON

John Waldron Partis died Q3 1871 St Pancras aged 57, burial 07 Aug 1871, Camden

in 1863 Mary Ann Partis married Robert Cambridge Woodard at Trinity Church Marylebone, her father was recorded as John Waldron Partis, a painter. He was a witness and signed John W Partis

According to William Thomas Partis' marriage record to Ann Elizabeth Turner in 1887, Lincoln St Swithin his dad was, as you say, John Richard Partis a painter. Please bear in mind you don't know WHO gave the info, and whoever did may have thought as he had a brother called John Richard that his Dad was also John Richard - or it may have been given as John Waldron when they first went along to arrange for the banns to be read, the vicar, as they did, scribbled the info on a piece of paper and misread it when he wrote out the register in advance ready for them to sign . I've seen odder errors. In later census years William Thomas is shown as being born in 1852, London which is either a good match for the above census returns and birth reg or a big co-incidence.

Given all the above, I really think that on balance this is the family you are looking for. The chances of another John Partis, who was born c1813 in Morpeth, Dad Richard, a butcher ending up in London are slim. I can't explain the sudden appearance of a middle name Waldren but the rest of the evidence has enough checking points on birthplaces and ages to make it all highly likely.

Only you can decide though, its not my family :-)

Boo

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Death date
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 13:05 BST (UK) »
I really like your recap Tickettyboo. I often get completely confused when reading threads on rootschat, so this is brilliant. I hope the op appreciated it too.

Most of the threads in here are a collaborative effort with everyone pitching in and helping where they can - which is really good as it brings together a variety of different sources, experience etc. Often folk spot something that others have not.
It does mean that sometimes info is given out of sequence, or what one person gives as  a 'possible' is perhaps discounted by what someone else finds later.

If its a query I have posted that ends up a bit convoluted I use the PRINT button at the top of the thread. It produces a text only file with all the posts. I don't print it, but I do save the file.
From there I can copy and paste bits and put them into a timeline  (as I did for this 're-cap') to see it as a whole and check it all out. (not that I disbelieve the replies but because I am a belt n braces person)

Boo

Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Death date
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 14:13 BST (UK) »
Sometimes I can spend that long trawling through someone's past I go beyond what I am even looking for and lose sight. A fresh pair of eyes and others opinions are a new lease of life into the inquiry.

I think it's amazing the help others give people as its not their family and its their time too. Roots chat has helped me on 3 occasions now with stuff I couldn't have imagined.

This is a great forum and I hope I can help somebody else out one day 😊

Quote from: Tickettyboo
link=topic=832129.msg6988848#msg6988848 date=1594123559
I really like your recap Tickettyboo. I often get completely confused when reading threads on rootschat, so this is brilliant. I hope the op appreciated it too.

Most of the threads in here are a collaborative effort with everyone pitching in and helping where they can - which is really good as it brings together a variety of different sources, experience etc. Often folk spot something that others have not.
It does mean that sometimes info is given out of sequence, or what one person gives as  a 'possible' is perhaps discounted by what someone else finds later.

If its a query I have posted that ends up a bit convoluted I use the PRINT button at the top of the thread. It produces a text only file with all the posts. I don't print it, but I do save the file.
From there I can copy and paste bits and put them into a timeline  (as I did for this 're-cap') to see it as a whole and check it all out. (not that I disbelieve the replies but because I am a belt n braces person)

Boo

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Death date
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 15:15 BST (UK) »
As you seem to agree this is likely to be the right family:

1842 Q3 St Pancras Mary Ann PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
baptism image on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH7-DS37-B?i=301

1844 Q1 Stepney John Richard PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
baptism image on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G961-7DD4?i=35

1845 Q3 St Pancras Maria Elizabeth PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q2 1853- St Pancras, age 8
baptism transcript on family search (no image)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQTR-8HT

1848 Q3 St Pancras Emma Grace PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q1 1856 St Pancras, age 7
baptism image on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSF7-13R7-Z?i=280
Burial is on deceased online

1850 Q3 St Pancras Ellen Jane PARTIS mmn ALDERTON  - died Q1 1856 St Pancras, age 5
baptism image on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSF7-17NM-V?i=273
burial is on deceased online

1852 Q1 St Pancras William Thomas PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
born 27 Jan 1852, baptised 12 Jun 1859 St John the Evangelist, Camden (image on ancestry)

1853 Q4 St Pancras Henry Joseph PARTIS mmn ALDERTON - died Q2 1866 St Pancras aged 13
born 13 Sep 1853, baptised 12 Jun 1859 St John the Evangelist, Camden (image on ancestry)
burial is on deceased online

1859 Q1 Pancras George Frederick PARTIS mmn ALDERTON
born 13 Jan 1859, baptised 12 Jun 1859 St John the Evangelist, Camden (image on ancestry)

To get the images from Ancestry, check your local library website to see if, as many counties have done, they allow you access to Ancestry from home while the libraries are closed. If they do then details on how to do it will be on  the library website.

Boo