Gilling, North Yorkshire

[Geordie Mag]

John and Sarah were still in Gilling West in 1789. The register records the burial of their daughter Jane in November 1789, though I see you give a Jane being born to them in Chew Magna that year.Sarah's father died in 1787 (I wrote 1789 by mistake for the time he stopped being Rector) so his death would reduce John's hope of preferment in North Yorkshire.

[zalib]

Having transcribed many records on FreeReg it was careless of me to not look there!

I have a baptism 17 Apr 1789 Jane daughter of Revd John HALL Vicar of Chew Magna and Dundry and Sarah his wife. This is in the Chew Magna records. All four children baptised there are identified as children of the Vicar. I cannot trace Jane in Somerset records so it is possible she was baptised in Somerset and taken to Yorkshire for burial.

My quest is not directly related to John HALL. After 10 years of research I'm trying to check or improve the information on some relatives. My 4xgreat grandmother was probably from Wiltshire and lived in Frome Somerset after her husband died. I can't prove this part of the tree, as you know BMDs in the 18th century rarely contain more than a persons name, sometimes an age and rarely a parent. My relative did have strong ties to John HALL vicar of Chew Magna, but I cannot see why, as it's a fair way from Frome. Her granddaughter inherited some property and her mother died when she was very young. John HALL became the trustee of the child's inheritance. HALL was also a trustee for the grandmother when she died. Knowing more about John HALL might lead to more understanding and prove my relatives history. I keep asking 'why Chew Magna?'.
When I realised that the Clergy Database might be misleading me with the link to Herefordshire where I'd been searching I naturally started looking at the Yorkshire data. At this time I still cannot determine where John HALL came from, I'm trying to find him in college records (the Blackburne's all went to Cambridge) and I've pointed out the three people in the Clergy Database to the administrators to see if they can confirm or explain their data.

I do now have more reason to look away from Hereford for links. I also appreciate getting more information on John HALL, I don't mind documenting these other people for others to learn from.

The search continues ... thanks, David

[Geordie Mag]

I have been delving a bit more into the history of Gilling, a place I know fairly well. The lord of the manor in the late 18th/early 19th century was John Wharton of Gillingwood Hall, whose family seat was at Skelton over on the Yorkshire coast. He was MP for Beverley. Wharton was the patron of Gilling church and pretty well all appointments there were family. At the beginning of the 19th century the rector was his brother William.
In April 1808 William married the Hon Charlotte Dundas, daughter of Lord Dundas of Aske Hall whose family own to this day large areas of land round Richmond. They married at Easby, just outside Richmond. This is significant for you because
 a) the marriage was announced in the Salisbury and Wiltshire Journal, April 25th 1808, so one of the families must have had links in the area.
b)Further delving revealed that the Whartons real surname was Hall. They had to change it to claim an inheritance.
If you are interested in the set up at Gilling, or Brignall, there are very good entries for them in the North Yorkshire section of Genuki,
Mag

[zalib]

All very interesting, I too get drawn into fascinating relationships between people, but I need to stay focussed on the Chew Magna and Frome side of the story. I looked at WHARTON in Wiltshire and there are too many of them to pursue.
I've found that the Brasenose College record for John HALL mentions Herefordshire, not his father and not the appointment to Chew Magna or Hope Mansell. The additional information came from another document that I'm still looking for. The Hope Mansell information seems to say he was at New College, so I'm looking for a new John HALL related to that.
The Gilling information is very useful and something to look at later.
My thinking at this time is that John HALL may have come from Ross, Herefordshire, did not get assigned to Hope Mansell but went to Gilling/Richmond, and then to Chew Magna.

[zalib]

The sponsor of John HALL for the Chew Magna parish was Rev Theophilus LINDSEY. Sarah BLACKBURNE's mother Hannah HOTHAM was previously married to Joshua ELSWORTH and had a daughter they called Hannah. The daughter married Theophilus LINDSEY.

[zalib]

Having looked closely at the codes the John HALL in Yorkshire did not go to college, so the references to Brasenose and Hope Mansell are for a different person. Person 134943 in the Clergy Database shows his qualification as 'lit', "The common abbreviation for 'literate' or 'literatus'. Its use indicates that a clergyman did not possess a degree, but that he was judged by the bishop to possess sufficient learning to qualify for ordination". This Gilling John HALL went to Chew Magna Somerset.
The HALL/WHARTON names don't quite fit at this time, John HALL who married a SPENSER changed his name to HALL SPENSER in 1720s? They had a son John who changed that name to WHARTON in abt 1780. I will come back to those names as the first John may have had a brother who would have called his son John and would have remained HALL.

[Geordie Mag]

Well, what a fascinating history you have unearthed! I have been reading up about Theophilus. who has his own Wikepedia page. He and Francis Blackburne senior were of a heretical tendency it seems. By the time Theophilus was putting John Hall forward to be vicar of Chew Magna he was no longer an Anglican clergyman but minister at the Essex Street Unitarian Chapel, which he had founded. One could write a history of the C of E in the late 18th century based simply on the goings on of these clergy.
Do you have a date for John Hall's death?

[zalib]

I did not look into Theophilus' history til now, and it is a wow moment. There are numerous questions to ask - he left the Church of England in 1782 but was the sponsor for John HALL going to Chew Magna in 1788. How did that happen, the church record shows LINDSEY was at the Unitarian Essex St Chapel? Before HALL went to Chew Magna there was a court case between the widow of the previous Chew Magna vicar (Rev PYKE) and LINDSEY, I guess she objected to LINDSEY's recommendation, but the court found in favour of LINDSEY (Salisbury and Winchester Journal - Monday 30 July)

John HALL: born abt 1755, died in Chew Magna 20 Apr 1841 (buried 26 Apr), age at burial 84 (Gloucester Journal).
Married Sarah BLACKBURNE 14 Aug 1782 in Brignall, Yorks. Sarah died May 1811, Chew Magna (buried 11 May).
Children: John 1784-1784, Jane 1789-1789, Hannah Mary 1791-1844, Sarah 1794-?, Theophilla 1795-1839.
John HALL married Harriet Mary BALL 1 May 1817, bride from Wrington b.1769 d.1832

I've read several articles about Theophilus but have not matched any names to the John HALL side of the story, except Francis BLACKBURNE. It's worth repeating your observation that BLACKBURNE died in 1787 and John HALL may have lost some backing as a result.

I have not found anything to suggest that John HALL was in any way non-conformist.

[Geordie Mag]

I see that a William Hall comes later to Gilling, first as curate the as vicar. unlikely to be John's brother as he has been to Trinity Cambridge, but interesting.
The vicar who was at Gilling when John Hall was curate was Robert Lascelles, stated on his record to be son of William Lascelles of Durham. Looking at William Lascelles will, on the Durham University Inheritance Database, I see that he refers to his cousin Joseph Hall. I suspect that Halls, Lascelles and Wharton are all connected to each other and looking after each other.