Author Topic: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's  (Read 1018 times)

Offline loggaman

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I have a John Niven b 1822 married to Elizabeth Chapman b1826 Durris / Banchory Ternan area they both appear to have the same mother Christian (Christina) Coutts. Elizabeths  I know was born in Birse and never married got the death cert etc. Johns I know from his second marriage was an adultery with a Christian Coutts from Cairnhill his father being Charles Neven no other details on his mother it just says they were never married on his marr cert. As far as I can see Cairnhill and Birse are 30km apart. On Johns marr cert it never mentioned parents just that banns had been read etc.
Thanks
Alex
Gill McIntosh Niven Forbes Taylor Munro (Mainly NE Scotland)

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Offline davidft

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 02:11 BST (UK) »
This may help

http://genetic-genealogy.co.uk/Toc115570145.html

and it does answer your question in a round about way
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline loggaman

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 02:33 BST (UK) »
I guess technically they would be brother and sister. May have to keep digging for another C Coutts.
Gill McIntosh Niven Forbes Taylor Munro (Mainly NE Scotland)

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Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 18:17 BST (UK) »
A peripheral member of my tree from Liverpool was the daughter of a couple with different mothers but the same father, who married in 1825 - you can google for the story.  The father was George Barton Prior who ran some kind of academy but died in his 30s I think.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 18:34 BST (UK) »
A peripheral member of my tree from Liverpool was the daughter of a couple with different mothers but the same father, who married in 1825 - you can google for the story.  The father was George Barton Prior who ran some kind of academy but died in his 30s I think.
I looked up the marriage on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks. His occupation was gentleman. Bride Eliza Prior. A witness had surname Prior. No parents' names in marriage register at that time. Surely it was illegal?
Some time ago I saw a note in a Catholic baptism register "Parents are brother and sister and were married in this chapel but not by me". I can't remember which chapel. I thought it may have meant that they were in-laws.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 18:48 BST (UK) »
I have a John Niven b 1822 married to Elizabeth Chapman b1826 Durris / Banchory Ternan area they both appear to have the same mother Christian (Christina) Coutts. Elizabeths  I know was born in Birse and never married got the death cert etc. Johns I know from his second marriage was an adultery with a Christian Coutts from Cairnhill his father being Charles Neven no other details on his mother it just says they were never married on his marr cert. As far as I can see Cairnhill and Birse are 30km apart. On Johns marr cert it never mentioned parents just that banns had been read etc.

I'm confused. You say that John Niven married Elizabeth Chapman. Then you say "Elizabeth ... never married". Did you mean Christian never married?
Which woman was born in Birse?
What evidence is there that John Niven and Elizabeth Chapman both had a mother named Christian Coutts?
You say "John I know from his second marriage was an adultery with Christian Coutts". Do you mean that John was born as a result of an adulterous affair between his father and Christian Coutts? 
How do you know that there weren't 2 women called Christian Coutts having children around the same time?
How common was the surname Coutts in the area?
Cowban

Offline loggaman

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 21:14 BST (UK) »
I have a John Niven b 1822 married to Elizabeth Chapman b1826 Durris / Banchory Ternan area they both appear to have the same mother Christian (Christina) Coutts. Elizabeths  I know was born in Birse and never married got the death cert etc. Johns I know from his second marriage was an adultery with a Christian Coutts from Cairnhill his father being Charles Neven no other details on his mother it just says they were never married on his marr cert. As far as I can see Cairnhill and Birse are 30km apart. On Johns marr cert it never mentioned parents just that banns had been read etc.

I'm confused. You say that John Niven married Elizabeth Chapman. Then you say "Elizabeth ... never married". Did you mean Christian never married?
Which woman was born in Birse?
What evidence is there that John Niven and Elizabeth Chapman both had a mother named Christian Coutts?
You say "John I know from his second marriage was an adultery with Christian Coutts". Do you mean that John was born as a result of an adulterous affair between his father and Christian Coutts? 
How do you know that there weren't 2 women called Christian Coutts having children around the same time?
How common was the surname Coutts in the area?
Elizabeths mother appeared not to have married and was born in Birse. Coutts are not common in the area couldnt trace them on Ancestry or Scotlands poeple. Yes John was the result of his father having committed adultery. I dont know if there was one or two cant find another one in the area at that time she may have been shipped out by the family.
Regards
Alex
Gill McIntosh Niven Forbes Taylor Munro (Mainly NE Scotland)

Gould Millar Goddard Watkins Walkden  Bernard Collins Sherriff Tempest
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Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 23:03 BST (UK) »
No parents' names in marriage register at that time. Surely it was illegal?

I don't know about the 'legality' of the marriage, but I would have thought the Rules of Consanguinity (or whatever) in the prayer book might have outlawed it.  But the story is online for all to see.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline majm

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Re: Was it possible for a half brother and sister to marry in the early 1820's
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 23:55 BST (UK) »
May I please ask for our OP to consider posting the link/s to other threads about this topic so we don't end up duplicating info.
 

JM
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