Author Topic: Mystery woman!  (Read 911 times)

Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 11 June 20 14:56 BST (UK) »
Yes, Joseph and his two sons were boarding together in a house in Lincoln. It states Joseph is a widow but that's not the case I am sure. It's a nightmare isn't it. I wonder if I'll ever actually get to the bottom of this  :D

Have you looked for Joseph and their two sons on 1911 census?   Any clues there?

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 11 June 20 15:01 BST (UK) »
Have you followed the sons to see what happened to them?
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



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Online Treetotal

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 11 June 20 15:02 BST (UK) »
There is a tree matching on Ancestry that gives her death date as 1911
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 11 June 20 15:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Carol,

Yeah I have noticed that about her age on the marriage certificate. She was born 4th Quarter of 1871. Unsure why she would lie about her age on the marriage?  ???

Just going to have a look at who they were.

So many grey areas, her ex husband said he was a widow in 1911 on the census but she remarried in 1905 to John Lewis so I don't know. Maybe he just said that as he was ashamed of her upping and leaving?

I would go a couple years wide of her birth date as she gives her age as 21 on her marriage cert. in 1891... Also you may want to research the two witnesses Samuel Mather/Meather...(difficult to read) and Ellen Burley if you haven't already done so. Ancestry does give her Dob as 1870 but her age might not be accurate across the census returns.
Carol

Offline Flattybasher9

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 11 June 20 15:18 BST (UK) »
The boys are both noted as born in Oldham. The 1892 birth coincides with an 1892 death of a Martha Alice Lee. her age is noted as 19. Perhaps, a post birth death?

Or, there is a death, again, of a Martha Ann Lee, death 1903, Oldham aged 29.


Malky


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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 11 June 20 15:40 BST (UK) »
The boys are both noted as born in Oldham. The 1892 birth coincides with an 1892 death of a Martha Alice Lee. her age is noted as 19. Perhaps, a post birth death?

Or, there is a death, again, of a Martha Ann Lee, death 1903, Oldham aged 29.


Malky

She is just Martha Lee on her marriage cert. to Joseph Aspland Malky in 1891.

Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 11 June 20 15:56 BST (UK) »
Very much as I'd just noted... as you'll know she actually married in Oldham, at St Stephen and All Martyrs, on 28th March 1891. When her two sons are baptised at the same church - John Joseph and George Henry on 26th May 1898, both parents are mentioned. Perhaps, had she died by then, mention would have been made of that?
In 1901 census, and others, there is another Martha Lee, b about the same time, in Shropshire, living now in Manchester, but her husband is George Jno and a House-painter? I think there's some chance the two ladies may get confused....
I really don't believe that a Burnley church would be relaxed enough to allow obviously bigamous marriages.
Are we sure quite which of the many Marthas Lee we need to search for?
To me, the deaths seem likelier than a re-marriage quite a distance away. As far as I can see, both the Marthas Lee who married in Burnley area at the time, were accounted for as spinsters in earlier censuses, as well.
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 11 June 20 16:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Malky, thanks so much for your help. Martha remarried in 1905 to a John Lewis. The family who knew her son Joseph knew that Martha left him and disappeared. He bought the two boys up on his own. Complete mystery!

The boys are both noted as born in Oldham. The 1892 birth coincides with an 1892 death of a Martha Alice Lee. her age is noted as 19. Perhaps, a post birth death?

Or, there is a death, again, of a Martha Ann Lee, death 1903, Oldham aged 29.


Malky

Offline Hardy8824

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Re: Mystery woman!
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 11 June 20 16:23 BST (UK) »
I am with you on the relaxed thing. My Grandma's cousin visited the church and came back with this info the man who married John and Martha was called Henry Holt, he died in 1920 she sent me the photo of his plaque up in the church, I need a conversation with him! :D

I have the marriage certificate for John and Martha. I'll attach it.

Very much as I'd just noted... as you'll know she actually married in Oldham, at St Stephen and All Martyrs, on 28th March 1891. When her two sons are baptised at the same church - John Joseph and George Henry on 26th May 1898, both parents are mentioned. Perhaps, had she died by then, mention would have been made of that?
In 1901 census, and others, there is another Martha Lee, b about the same time, in Shropshire, living now in Manchester, but her husband is George Jno and a House-painter? I think there's some chance the two ladies may get confused....
I really don't believe that a Burnley church would be relaxed enough to allow obviously bigamous marriages.
Are we sure quite which of the many Marthas Lee we need to search for?
To me, the deaths seem likelier than a re-marriage quite a distance away. As far as I can see, both the Marthas Lee who married in Burnley area at the time, were accounted for as spinsters in earlier censuses, as well.