Author Topic: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?  (Read 400 times)

Offline colee

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #18 on: Friday 12 June 20 18:21 BST (UK) »
It was Margit's nephew Louis that also lived at Far Rockaway, this was his address from a US Social Security record:

Louis Mantel
Birth Date:   11 Aug 1914
Address:   1014 Neilson St Apt 5c
Residence Place:   Far Rockaway, New York, USA
Zip Code:   11691-5022

He died in October 1996.

Offline colee

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 13 June 20 13:32 BST (UK) »
What is the best approach when census searches don't initially retrieve the records you expect should be there.

I tried to look up the 1940 census information for Margit Friedmann/Weiss but couldn't find her. It is most likely she would have been in New York. Her ship crossing document in 1936 lists sister Irene living at Sutter Avenue as the known contact in New York. By 1940 I guess she would have moved to her own place but it didn't come up on my search. 

It seems like Sutter Avenue was the original address for the family in New York. In the 1925 Census Margit's sister Irene and husband Herman Mantel were at number 938 Sutter Avenue with all 5 of their children (Hugo, Elizabeth, Jeanette, Louis and Renee). They were also all at home there still in the 1930 Census. in 1940 Herman and Irene were still at Sutter Avenue but may have moved to number 918 which they owned, although this could be a typing error. Louis was the only child at home with them at that point (aged 25), as was Irene's father Isaac who came over in 1938 after the death of his wife in Vienna, aged 81.

I also couldn't find one of Louis' sisters, Elizabeth, in the 1940 census. She married Daniel von Kameniczky in 1937 but doesn't seem to show up on an initial search for 1940.

There is also an uncle who is proving difficult to find in the census records. Irene's brother Kalman Friedmann came to New York in May 1935 listing Herman at 938 Sutter Ave as his known relative. But again, he doesn't show up in the 1940 census from an initial look. During the war his draft registration document shows he was living in Pittsburgh, he was a photographer working at the Bachrach studio there; and then another address in Washington, North Carolina. But I don't know where he went after that.

I would be so appreciative of any help in finding these records, and also knowing the other routes for pinning down a census record if it doesn't show up by a normal search.

Thank you so very much
Colee

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 13 June 20 14:20 BST (UK) »
Try alternative spellings for Elizabeth Von Kameniczky.  Perhaps the marriage did not last and she remarried or moved.

Kalman Friedman is that the one with a birth date 26/4/1897 ? As per WW2 Young Mans Draft

Herman Mantel 1882 -  died 7 April 1948

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W2V-56T

Sandra
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Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline colee

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 13 June 20 14:26 BST (UK) »
Brilliant! It seems they did move to 913 Sutter Ave then.

Yes that seems right for Kalman, I have 29 April 1897 but it must be the same.

Offline RJ137

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 13 June 20 14:31 BST (UK) »

I also couldn't find one of Louis' sisters, Elizabeth, in the 1940 census. She married Daniel von Kameniczky in 1937 but doesn't seem to show up on an initial search for 1940.


This appears to be them in the 1940 census. Perhaps they changed the last name? The names are very neatly printed, not a transcription error. I assume the initials "V K" stand for "Von Kameniczky".

DOB & POB match for both of them based on marriage record. The 1930 census stated Elizabeth did photo work at a camera shop. The 1940 census states Elizabeth is an artist at a photo studio.

Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2488-R26

1940 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K3BK-8NT

Offline colee

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 13 June 20 14:37 BST (UK) »
Bingo brilliant thank you so much, yes that's got to be them. I think Wellman might have been one of the husband's middle names.

Such a sense of completeness to see people in the records when they seemed to have disappeared.

thank you so much for your help
Colee


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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 13 June 20 14:46 BST (UK) »

It seems like Sutter Avenue was the original address for the family in New York.


913 Sutter Ave. is referred to in numerous articles both before and after the death of Herman Mantel in 1948 as "Mantel Manor". It appears to not only be where Herman lived, but as a place where various Jewish functions took place.

Herman's death: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W2V-56T

 The Brooklyn Daily Eagle
Brooklyn, New York
27 Jul 1944, Thu    Page 11

Clip: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53348786/the-brooklyn-daily-eagle/

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 13 June 20 15:08 BST (UK) »
Florida Death Index -
Elizabeth Mantel Wellman - 9 August 1909 - 18 August 1970 - aged 61 years
Death Place Alachua, Florida.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VV7L-9HM

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Jeanette Mantel: Marriage 3 Oct 1934 in Kings, New York, register access?
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 13 June 20 15:10 BST (UK) »
SSDI Daniel Wellman - 27 July 1899 - October 1976

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JTBL-Q6X

Florida Death Index - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VV8P-RCH

Sandra

"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada