Author Topic: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?  (Read 428 times)

Offline IgorStrav

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Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« on: Monday 15 June 20 20:22 BST (UK) »
Apologies if this query has been posted before

I'm trying to obtain a birth certificate for a person where I'm uncertain what is recorded for her parents.

I have the following reference details, which I believe is the person I want.

Hilda West
Date of Registration:1925
Qtr: Oct-Nov-Dec
Reg district: Athlone
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume3
Page1
FHL Film Number 101229

however, when I use the Irish GRO site, unlike the UK GRO, I am being required to insert a Mother's name, and am not given the option of inserting the volume/page number as I would do on the UK GRO to pin down the exact birth I'm referring to.

I'm unwilling to put a possible mother's name in case it's the wrong one.

Is there a way round this?  What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your help here.



Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline Sinann

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 15 June 20 20:37 BST (UK) »
I've never ordered a cert online, I was under the impression it was for full certs but may have been updated since, I've always used this form for photocopies (4), only index info needed
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do

ah I see you can now use this form by email that's a big improvement.

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 15 June 20 21:00 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Sinann!

Have managed to complete the form and apply by email.

Following up a very exciting bit of research which has connected a 2nd cousin with her Irish family from her Athlone grandmother.  ;D
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex


Offline Sinann

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 15 June 20 21:31 BST (UK) »
Sounds good, hope with all that's going on it doesn't take too long to get the cert.

Offline Maggsie

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 13:33 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Was there a sister called Mary P West born 1932?
Maggsie

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 14:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Maggsie

No, I'm trying to establish whether this is the correct birth ref for a child, youngest in a family.  The Mary P birth has MMN Johnson, I see, and that doesn't fit my facts, I don't think.

In brief summary, Margaret West (1887-1936, Athlone) and William Samuels (1884, Bermondsey - 1917) had several children in Athlone, before William died in WWi.

After his death, some of the children were then apparently put into care, with just the youngest staying with the widowed mother.

However, in 1925 another child was born, and this child Hilda was always considered part of the family, and when she married she called herself Hilda Samuels and quoted William Samuels (dec'd) as her father.  It does not seem to have occurred to (or been seriously considered by) either her or the other siblings that she cannot have been William's child.

In an effort to try and discover whether Hilda was the illegitimate daughter of Margaret West, or - possibly - the child of someone else, I wanted to check if this was the correct birth ref and who her parents were stated to be.

Margaret West Samuels was a very well thought-of Catholic widow, and it would seem very unlikely for her to have an illegitimate child in the social circumstances in which she found herself.

It had occurred to me that Hilda might have been the child of Margaret's eldest daughter, Eileen Elizabeth Samuels (1910-?1980), who would have been 15 at the time of the birth, but if this is the case, why would the registration be in the name West?  Even if the child could not be that of William Samuels, Margaret's name was still Samuels and not West, as was her daughter Eileen's.

I haven't as yet been able to find more details of Margaret West's family - it could be, of course, that the child Hilda was born to one of her siblings - but the birth reg may give me more to work with.

Just in case anyone can help with the West family, these are the details I have:

Margaret West 4/8/1887 Athlone
married 28/5/1904 St Mary's Athlone to William Samuels, a soldier
Fathers Edward West (labourer), John Samuels (salesman)

the children to the West/Samuels marriage were
Mary Hilda 1908-1916
Eileen Elizabeth 1910-?1980, married William John Parks
John Joseph 1912-?. married Jessie Lavin
Edward Victor 1914-?
William Frederick 1916-?, married Agnes Colgan
and of course
Hilda West?Samuels? 1925-1957

Hilda West?Samuels? married my great uncle Henry Albert Pay.

Whilst this post was really just to get advice about obtaining a birth certificate, any ideas anyone has are very welcome.

Thank you for reading.

PS I have ordered the cert with Sinann's kind help/advice








Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline Maggsie

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 17 June 20 13:47 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I did notice this... in Athlone in 1911
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003517016/
Mary Hilda was born in England.
I am locked out of a web site at the moment. I will get back to you.
Maggsie

Offline dathai

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Re: Irish Birth certificate where Mother's name not known?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 17 June 20 17:10 BST (UK) »
William Frederick possibly died 1985 Sarsfield Square,Athlone
https://www.nationalarchives.ie/search-the-archives/

on top left beside harp you will see National Archives  click on this
scroll down slightly till you see Search online catalogue click on this
enter William Samuels