Author Topic: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855  (Read 1418 times)

Offline Maria McCulloch

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marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« on: Tuesday 16 June 20 16:50 BST (UK) »
Is there anyone able to let me know where I can access copy marriage certificates for Scotland Prior to 1855.

I am a member of Scotlandspeople site and I can only see the Banns for marriages.  This does not give me the couples parents names.

I need these to confirm I have the right people as there are too many William McCulloch and Thomas McCulloch's in Scotland.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Online RJ_Paton

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 17:42 BST (UK) »
Before 1855 there were no marriage, birth or death cerficates in Scotland .

The church records were the only records kept of these events - in some areas there were excellent records kept while in others there was nothing.

It was this patchwork which added pressure to introduce Civil Registration

Offline GR2

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 17:53 BST (UK) »
What period are you looking at? If the individuals lived to 1855 or later, their death certificates will name both parents.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 18:16 BST (UK) »
Is there anyone able to let me know where I can access copy marriage certificates for Scotland Prior to 1855.
You can't access pre-1855 marriage certificates because they don't exist.

Quote
I am a member of Scotlandspeople site and I can only see the Banns for marriages.  This does not give me the couples parents names.
Before 1855 those are the only records, and they rarely give the name of the bride's father and almost never the name of the groom's father, let alone those of the couple's mothers.

When and where did your Thomas and William McCulloch marry and who were their wives?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline Maria McCulloch

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 19:15 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone;

Forfarian  The first one I am looking at is, the parents of Thomas McCulloch (Weaver), (I think this was his trade) born 1790 and Elizabeth Gray born 1791.  Thomas and Elizabeth were married on 27th Aug.1808 in Ayr, Scotland, Scotlandspeople Ref 578/  80 235.  If you could work any magic that would be fantastic.

If you do find anything would you be able to let me know where it was found, So I can look for any others without pestering you, or anyone else.

Thanking you in anticipation.




Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 19:58 BST (UK) »
Before 1855 there were no marriage, birth or death cerficates in Scotland .

The church records were the only records kept of these events - in some areas there were excellent records kept while in others there was nothing.

It was this patchwork which added pressure to introduce Civil Registration


I do not have any Scottish examples to prove the point as I have not attempted to collect Scottish certificates before civil registration but I believe it could be done.
The common mistake is thinking only civil registration produced certificates, but that is incorrect any official authentication of an event is a certificate, all a certificate does is certify the event occurred, I have many examples of pre 1837 English certificates even early certificates made after 1837 seldom carried the word certificate on them.
see
http://anguline.co.uk/cert/marriage.html

I do have an 1881 certificate of an1846 Scottish birth but this will probably not be accepted by the purists as this was (A) produced in 1881 and (B) authenticated and signed rather than certified and signed but it was legal proof of the event

The legal definition of certify being - "to formally and officially state that something is true, especially by signing an official or legal document" which the document below does.

http://anguline.co.uk/cert/birth.html (scroll to 3rd document from foot of page)

There are links to examples of other types of certificates here

http://anguline.co.uk/cert/certificates.htm

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Guy
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 20:15 BST (UK) »
The first one I am looking at is, the parents of Thomas McCulloch (Weaver), (I think this was his trade) born 1790 and Elizabeth Gray born 1791. 
Where did you get these dates of birth?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 20:31 BST (UK) »
I do have an 1881 certificate of an 1846 Scottish birth but this will probably not be accepted by the purists as this was (A) produced in 1881 and (B) authenticated and signed rather than certified and signed but it was legal proof of the event
You could have 1001 post-hoc documents for legal proof of an event, but they can only contain information which was recorded in some form or other at the time when the event took place, for example church records or family bibles or newspaper announcements. Sometimes even the recollections of the people involved, in the absence of a written record. I'd have no problem accepting such a document.

If you choose to call it a certificate, that's fine, but it isn't especially helpful in the context of this particular query.

The fact remains that information about the parents of a couple getting married was not routinely collected in Scotland before 1855, when formal marriage certificates were introduced, and in England, Wales and Ireland the full details of the parents of a couple getting married are still not recorded at the time of marriage - only the names and occupations of the couple's fathers are on an English, Welsh or Irish marriage certificate.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

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Re: marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 20:57 BST (UK) »
Post 1855 it was possible to obtain birth death or marriage certificates for events between 1800 & 1855. IF the persons involved had taken the necessary steps to have the events recorded in the “Register of Neglected Entries”.
 
The RNE records are relatively rare due possibly in part to the expense involved - a fee had to be paid in addition to the cost of presenting the required evidence To the local Sheriff