marriage certificates for Scotland prior 1855

[Forfarian]

Post 1855 it was possible to obtain birth death or marriage certificates for events between 1800 & 1855. IF the persons involved had taken the necessary steps to have the events recorded in the “Register of Neglected Entries”.

But they could only include the information recorded in the RNE. I have seen hundreds of RNE entries and they are very similar to the baptism and banns information recorded in the conventional way in the OPRs. In particular, the ones I have seen have not included information about the parents of couple getting married.
 

The RNE records are relatively rare due possibly in part to the expense involved

There are RNEs at the end of 255 of the 901 OPRs. That is, 28% of parishes' registers have a RNE.

[MonicaL]

Hi Maria

Thomas and Elizabeth had at least 6 children after their marriage?

From the OPRs:

William 1809 - likely died and name reused
Thomas 1811
Janet 1813
Elizabeth 1816
William 1818
David 1823

There may be more that don't show in the registers.

Sometimes you can get clues from the name used for the earlier born children, referred to as Scottish naming pattern (the Irish liked to use it too!). Lots of links online on this, one here www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm  Just note that it wasn't always used, or in the prescribed order but worth thinking about and considering.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Could this be Elizabeth with two of the sons in 1841:

Elisabeth Mccullock 55
William Mccullock 20 plumber
David Mccullock 20 blockmaker
John Mcgregor 5

Address: Portland Street, Kilmarnock, Ayrshire

David's age is slightly out if so.

I think son William still showed as a plumber in Kilmarnock following his marriage to Sarah Gray Wallace.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Where did you get the approx birth years for Thomas and Elizabeth? If a guesstimate, maybe they were born ealier.

Something to consider and maybe check. The last child we had for them was David in 1823 born in Ayr. There is a death showing on SP (OPRs) for a Thomas McCulloch, aged 52 20/02/1825 in Ayr. A possibility maybe? Not sure though if the OPR death or burial entry will give you any details to let you confirm either way though.

Added: there is an entry on the SP Wills & Testaments for a Thomas McCulloch, innkeeper in Ayr in 1825. You mentioned that your Thomas was a weaver, so maybe not connected.

Monica

[Maria McCulloch]

MonicaL
Thank you for that information.  I did have 5 of the children for Elizabeth, but did not have the 1st William, I will look into this.

The 1841 census looks as if these are the same people.  I will look at that as well.

Thank you for your help on this it is much appreciated.

[Maria McCulloch]

I found the christening dates for both of them on the FamilySearch site.

What does ORP stand for?

[MonicaL]

OPRs are the Old Parish Registers. Family Search have the indexes. The original images from the registers are available to view on Scotlands People.

Monica

[MonicaL]

With the names we have so far for the children, one possibility for Thomas? From FS www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY88-K38

Added: Quite a number of children showing as born in Ayr for this couple in that time range.

Monica

[Forfarian]

I found the christening dates for both of them on the FamilySearch site.

Hmmm. Never trust anything you find online, especially on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FamilySearch and similar web sites, unless it is an image of an original certificate.

I had a look at the marriage on FS. It is obviously an index reference to the original on SP.

However, it looks as if someone has looked for a possible birth and come up with a Thomas McCullock baptised in Barr in 1790, father David McCullock. However as you yourself have pointed out, there are a lot of Thomas McCullochs in Scotland, and there is no evidence on FS to prove that this Thomas McCullock is the Thomas McCulloch who married Elizabeth Gray. He could be, but he may not be. There are five deaths registered after 1855 of Thomas McCullochs who were born in 1790 plus or minus two years.

The same person has come up with a possible candidate for Elizabeth: Elisabeth Gray, parents Robert Gray and Janet McNinch, baptised in Newton in 1791. Again, there is no specific evidence that this is the Elizabeth Gray who married Thomas McCulloch. She could be, but she may not be. There are 29 deaths registered after 1855 of Elizabeth Grays who were born in 1791 plus or minus two years.

Further, the Thomas McCullock baptised in 1790 would have been just 18, and the Elizabeth Gray baptised in 1791 would have been only 17, in August 1808. A marriage of a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old was certainly possible, but it would have been very unusual. Most young men could not afford to keep a wife, never mind a family, until they were well into their 20s.

I note that the source of these baptisms is cited as 'Government record', which demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the surviving pre-1855 records.