DICKENS family - Orpington burial question

[louisemcm]

Hello
I'm new to researching family history and have found parish records on Familysearch.org which had entries showing that three of my relatives are buried in the parish of Orpington.

Frederick Dickens buried April 16th 1877,
Lizzie Dickens buried 1st March 1883 (under 1880 Burials Act) certified by Ann Dickens
Ann Dickins/ Dickens buried Feb 3 1902 - I think it says ald /old ground next to the entry

Could anybody advise me which cemetery this would relate to and how I can find a map of the graveyard so that I could visit their memorials.
I'm also not sure what being buried under the Burials Act means and why her mother certified the entry.

Many thanks for any help or guidance.
Louise

[JohninSussex]

If the information comes from parish records, presumably the burials were in the church yard.  The actual parish registers don't usually state whether there was a memorial stone or similar.  Might be worth trying to contact the church, or Bromley Council might hold some records, it's always worth asking by e-mail.

https://www.bromley.gov.uk/info/200111/records_and_archives

[louisemcm]

Hi John
Thank you so much for replying and for sending the link to me.
I'll get in contact with them.
Best wishes
Louise

[Gibel]

All Saints Church Bank Hart Road Orpington BR6 0QD is very old and has an old graveyard and a new graveyard.

The telephone number for their church office is 01689 832031

Website www.allsaintsorpington.org.uk

[louisemcm]

Dear Gibel
Thank you so much.
I contacted Bromley Historic Collections and they thought the burial ground was probably All Saints as well. They couldn't provide me with any records yet as the archives are shut due to Covid.
Thank you so much for sending me the telephone number and website details. I'll try to get hold of them.
I now think that I've got both Dickens and Packman relatives buried in that cemetery.
Thank you again.
Best wishes
Louise

[bearkat]

There are some MIs for Orpington (taken in 1919) on the Kent Archaeological Society website

https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/research/monumental-inscriptions/orpington

I can't see the names DICKENS or PACKMAN.

[louisemcm]

Dear Bearkat
Thanks so much for looking.
I've emailed All Saints so I'll wait and see if they have any access to their records.
best wishes
Louise

[Chris Doran]

The 3 Dickens's are recorded in a list of All Saints MIs made by Fred Whyler in 1981 and available from the NW Kent FHS as "Bromley Misc Monumental Inscriptions & Indexes". The only Packman is Thomas, d 5-Feb-1901 a 70, buried with James Fielder, d 29-Jan-1874 a 74. Unusually, there is no map, though it says it covers the old graveyard, presumably excluding the extension across the road.

I don't have either gravestone among my photos, though I'm not sure how comprehensibly I've covered the churchyard. Also, there's a fair amount of bare grass suggesting that some gravestones have been removed, maybe since 1981. Some have been laid as flagstones along the path leading from the lych gate and inscriptions are being worn away.

In present circumstances, I'm not doing any graving trips involving public transport, or I'd offer to go and look.

[louisemcm]

Hello Chris
Thank you so much for that information. It's incredibly useful. I'll contact the NW Kent FHS, as I've just joined the group.

I think the Thomas Packman that you found is the brother of Annie Dickens nee Packman as this matches with the burial date I found.

I've found these burial dates listed in the Orpington parish records:
Burials in Parish of Orpington

Frederick Dickens (16 April 1877)

Ann Dickins nee Packman (3 February 1902)

 Lizzie (Eliza Dickens) (1 March 1883)  - daughter of Frederick and Ann Dickens died age 21

Thomas Packman  (13 February 1901)  brother of Ann Dickens/Packman

Amy Packman nee Vallins (27 September 1892) Plot C row A number 8 (old/ald ground)

James Packman (25 November 1889)

(Amy and James Packman are the parents of Ann Dickens nee Packman)

I'm not leaving the house either, as I'm shielding, so please don't even think of going to look for me. The most important thing is to keep safe and healthy.

Best wishes
Louise