Author Topic: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North  (Read 3740 times)

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #27 on: Monday 22 June 20 14:52 BST (UK) »
I've registered for the will service but the confirmation email has yet to appear.  Meanwhile I looked at their glossary:
Administration: A legal document issued by a Probate Registry when a person has died without making a valid will (called intestate) and is issued to an administrator of the estate. This is usually the lawful spouse if any, or nearest blood relative

So looks like Maud Bertram didn't have a will, and that Richard Norman Smith was the nearest blood relative. 

It also looks like there is no will to obtain, so I shall just go ahead for the marriage cert.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #28 on: Monday 22 June 20 22:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much jonw65 for taking a keen interest and helping me to work through possibilities.

I will post here what the marriage cert states regarding the address of Alice MM Crook to see if it matches that of 'Annie' Crook at 7 Lanark Villas in the 1911 census.

The other people are intriguing on this census.  Why were 'Annie' Crook (presumably Maud), and Jack/John Campbell in that particular household, with Annie of no occupation?  What was she living on? I notice that Alfred Lawler was a gentleman living on own means, and single.  Now I'm wondering if knew Annie Campbell and perhaps Jack/John's father, in fact, and had a lapse of memory, putting down Annie instead of Maud?  Or perhaps I'm adding 2+2 and getting 100!  Jack/John's older brother, Alfred born 1896, put on his marriage cert that his father was a gentleman, although that could have been pure fiction.  I have been on the lookout for candidates for the father with the first name of Alfred, since often the firstborn child takes the name of the parent. 

Looking at Rossetta Lawler in the 1901 census, she and her brother are in the High St, Lewisham running a school, with 5 Spanish teenagers, 1 French and a few British pupils.  In 1891 she was a lodger in a household but her occupation was 'governess school'.  In 1891 Alfred Lawler was a tutor at Blackheath Commercial School for Boys in Lewisham.

On looking up Alfred Lawler in the newspaper archive, he pops up as a principal of the above school, but also in the divorce proceedings reported in Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser 25 April 1914 for a relationship with Admiral Prothero's wife.  So that explains Nellie Prothero, visitor to the Lawler household in 1911....


Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 24 June 20 13:04 BST (UK) »
Have you got ancestry?
London, England, City Directories, 1736-1943
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61265/

Hammersmith and Shepherds Bush Directory 1919-1920
Image 124
Hetley Road
11 Bertram Reinhold

I have got access to Ancestry -  how did you find that entry please?  Is it possible to search on those images?

A general search doesn't show him in any results.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 24 June 20 21:14 BST (UK) »
I have got access to Ancestry -  how did you find that entry please?  Is it possible to search on those images?

Hi
Ancestry have only indexed those directories for every five years, 1900, 1905, etc.
Having said that, I am not sure that they have indexed all of those available in every fifth year (if that makes sense)
So the only way to be sure is to search manually using the drop down list of directories to find ones of interest. The years vary from area to area and subtle changes in the titles or coverage of some of the suburban ones doesn't help.
But it can be great fun!

It is very interesting that Reinhold is listed. Presuming he wasn't English or naturalized, I am not surprised that he wasn't on the electoral registers. How did Alice get on them just after the war, perhaps he had died by then? She would have taken her husband's nationality on marriage?
John


Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 24 June 20 23:00 BST (UK) »
Thanks - I'll try looking at those indexed records.

I would have thought Reinhold was interned during WW1, or perhaps he went abroad for a short while?  Apparently Reinhold=Reginald so he may have used that name while anti-German feeling was strong. 

The 1911 census states married 6 years, so that would be about 1905, but I can't find a record for England, so perhaps he married in Germany or elsewhere.  It also stated that one child had died, but I can't find the birth/death in England.  There is another Bertha Bertram in various records but is a red herring - not German and not Reinhold's wife.

I am now waiting for the Alice MM Crook/Reinhold marriage cert to see what it reveals.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 24 June 20 23:18 BST (UK) »
Here's another connection with the Crook family.   The knight attorney mentioned in the probate notice is Sir William Abraham Wayland.   This person, or someone with the same name, visited Maud's niece in St Pancras workhouse when she was 3 years old.

See this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=833277.0
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 25 June 20 14:54 BST (UK) »
jonw65 - yet another connection between Wayland and Maud?   Wayland is on the electoral register for 1918-1921 at Hempton Lodge, Monks Horton, Sellindge polling district, Canterbury.   

Monks Horton is in the parish of Elham. 

You found a death record in 1931 for Maud Bertram registered in Elham. 

Intriguing.

I cannot find any electoral references for Richard Norman Smith.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 30 June 20 13:43 BST (UK) »
The marriage cert has arrived!

Yes, Alice Maud Mary Crook, age 29, spinster, father Robert Crook butcher (so this is my Maud, but surprised it didn't say deceased), marrying Reinhold Bertram, age 34, bachelor, a builder and contractor, father Reinhold Bertram also a builder and contractor.  Bride and groom addresses 51 Lanark Villas, so I haven't got a confirmation that she is 'Annie' at 7 Lanark Villas.  Shame.  But if I can't find any other Alice Maud Mary Crook in the 1911 census who is likely, then I'm going to take it that she is 'Annie' Crook.

Witnesses Walthus or Ualthus EDIT Malthus Lutz and H Frenck. 
Date: 18 Oct 1911.

So need to sort out two Reinholds now.  No clue as to father Reinhold being dead or alive, but as Robert Crook wasn't noted as deceased, then the cert isn't much help on that front.
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 30 June 20 14:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Val
Thanks for letting us know. I do agree, good news, well done.
So Reinhold ought to be the chap at the same address in the 1911 census, even his age is the same! So he has lost his wife in those few months (how, where?)

As it confirms Lanark Villas I would still think that Annie Crook living down the road is Alice Maud. Perhaps in the overall context of this puzzle it isn't surprising! And we know now that she must have been about somewhere.
John