Ann MATTHEWS, Alice Maud Mary CROOK, John CAMPBELL Birmingham North

[ValJJJ]

I’ve been posting various requests all over RootsChat following different angles, but have still failed to track the elusive John Campbell born 4 Oct 1897 [edit from original typo] in St Giles [edit: wrong, should have typed St George], Bloomsbury, London.  There is a possibility he went to Australia at an unknown age, and from there to NZ, based on a weak DNA match with a descendant of a John Campbell of the same dob.  This person gave varied and conflicting accounts to family members and officials about his background, which is muddled and probably a mix of fact and fiction with half-remembered names and details.  I cannot connect the dots between my John, with the last record I can find in 1902, and this John, whose earliest record that has come to light so far being his marriage cert from 1925 in NZ, although he said he arrived in NZ from Australia.

Now I have a few more firm pieces of information so here is what I know, and would like to know.
Ann Matthews, twice married and twice widowed (first husband Robert Crook), born late 1837/early 1838 in Claverton (Glos) was John C’s grandmother. In Dec 1901, John C’s mother was committed to an asylum, where she remained until death in 1924.  His siblings were cared for via the St Pancras workhouse system, and I have plenty of info on them.  However for some reason, John was taken in by his uncle (Smith) and aunt (sister of John’s mother) in Nottingham.  The Smiths emigrated to S Africa in 1903 but did not take John.  The workhouse records show that John went to his grandmother in Dec 1902.  She had the same address as in the 1901 census i.e. Baystone, Florence Rd, Chester Rd, Birmingham North, (now Sutton Coldfield) where she was shown as widowed, letting lodgings, with her daughter from her first marriage Maud Crook (born 1882, Calne, Wilts); her widowed daughter-in-law Charlotte Crook and her daughters; and boarder Ernest S Reeves 35   Prof of Music born Margate.

The census showed this address to be in the civil parish of Sutton Coldfield, Wylde Green Ward of Parliamentary Division Northern or Tamworth, and reg district of Aston.

I cannot find Ann Matthews’ death for certain, but a librarian at Sutton Coldfield looked at electoral registers for me and found her at Florence Rd on the 1901-4 registers but no later.  She also looked for any Matthews or Crook names in later registers for Florence Rd with nothing.   I have looked at a 1905 Kelly's and she is not listed in Florence Rd. She may have died in 1903-4, or remarried, or moved away.   I would like to find her death – I did find on Ancestry a 1913 Q2 entry for Birmingham, which could be her, but frustratingly cannot find it on FreeBMD or the gov BD site to order the death cert, and that might not help confirm it is her in any case.

I have tracked Charlotte and her daughters and not found John with them at any point.

[ValJJJ]

to continue...

The NZ John told family he was brought up by Aunt Maud, which could well be Maud Crook, although it could be a coincidence as it’s a common name, and could be an invention in any case, just to put a name on a form.  My Maud was registered as Alice Maud Mary Crook, but named Maud in the 1891 and 1901 census.  In fact in the 1901 census she was entered wrongly as Maud Matthews but this surname was crossed out and replaced with Crook.  I’m wondering if John Campbell could have been misnamed as John Crook in later records if he was living with Maud.
I have looked for Maud Crook but not found a John with her.  I did find an Alice MM Crook on a Jan 1901 passenger list to Fremantle, but my Maud was on the 31 March 1901 census with her mother in Florence Rd.  I found another entry of Miss A M Crook in 1913 travelling from Fremantle to Melbourne, and she may be this same person. 

So where was Maud after the 1901 census?  I haven’t found her in the 1911 census, although of course if she married, I wouldn’t under this name, but the birthplace of Calne helps in the search.

Searching for Alice MM in UK records, I have found that in addition to Alice Maude Mary Crook ,born 1882 Calne, Wilts, these muddy the waters:

Alice Maud Mary Crook Christened 15 Sep 1881 in Bedminster, Somerset England. Father George James Crook, mother Theresa Leicester.  From census data, Theresa born 1841 Kingsdown, Bristol  In 1881 in Norfolk Place, Bedminster tailoress, with husband born Trowbridge, Wilts 1830ish, tailor. with 3 children, Alice born 1868, George, Ernest all born Bristol  Theresa died 1910 in Bristol.

Alice Maud M Crook birth reg Q4 1882 Kensington, London  mother maiden name Grenway

Alice Maud Crook birth reg Q4 1882 Stoke Damerel, Devon, England  mother maiden name BURGOYNE 

Marriages
Alice Maud M Crook Q2 1906  so if my Maude would be age 24 Croydon  Names noted: Arthur Robert Bolton; Winifred Aubrey Garrad; John Ernest Wilkins

Alice Maud Crook Q4 1904 so if my Maude would be age 22 Shoredtich.  Charles Al Medcraft, Gilbert Henry Phillips, Florence Woodroof

Alice Maude M Crooke Q3 1903 so if my Maude would be age 23 Hartley Wintney, Hants.  George Wise

Alice M Crook  Q1 1918 so if my Maude would be age 36   Bromsgrove, Worc     Harry Rogers

Alice M M Crook Q4 1911 so if my Maude would be age 29    Paddington  Reinhold Bertram, Maud Crook, Mary A Gallagher, John P Moore (Child born George Bertram, GRO Reference: 1912  D Quarter in PADDINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 35)

Deaths
Alice Maud Crook Q1 1925  M Quarter in SALFORD   age 42.  so possible

Electoral register:
1905 Lower St, West Harnham, Wilts – Alice Maud Mary Crook [EDIT; Sorry, Alice Maud Mary Barker], eligible to vote due to house.  No indication of Miss or Mrs – this might be worth pursuing as she might have returned to her home county if (big if) her mother had owned Baystone and Maud had inherited it.

So that’s where I’m up to, and am beginning to run out of ideas and sources now!  However, I know Rootschatters are much better than I am at ferreting out information.

Here's hoping....

[CaroleW]

I’ve been posting various requests all over RootsChat following different angles, but have still failed to track the elusive John Campbell born 4 Oct 1987 in St Giles, Bloomsbury, London. 

Can you amend his birthyear?

Can you include the links to those posts so members don't waste time duplicating info that may already have been found

[ValJJJ]

oops, yes sorry about the birth year, I will go back and change that.

Basically I've summarised what I've found out in this query, much with the help of Rootschatters, so didn't cross reference the threads as well.  So I thought the other threads would be a distraction.  Here they are but note that some are old queries and I've found out more since.  Others are no longer relevant as I was barking up the wrong tree!  Some deal with pre 1902, when I am now looking at post 1902.  Also I haven't posted any queries about Alice Maud Mary Crook before.

Query board of guardians for Florence Rd, Chester Rd, Sutton Coldfield
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747599.msg5950554#msg5950554

Query ann matthews born 1837, died when -
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=814225.msg6751129#msg6751129

Query decipher snippet
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=833124.0

JC in Australia query birth record
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=826991.msg6908584#msg6908584

shipping lines Argentina via NZ
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828188.msg6922347#msg6922347

NZ railway employee records
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828317.msg6923455#msg6923455

[ValJJJ]

I should add that I did find a possible John Campbell in the 1911 census but the age had been mistranscribed and even if it had been correct, it was unlikely that it would have been him, as it was at St Charles School, Weald Rd, Brentwood, Essex, which was for Roman Catholics.  Apparently workhouses from London would send RC children here.  My John Campbell was CofE.

The difficulty in locating him is the common name, plus place of birth being London, which is pretty broad.  Also I have found other workhouse children in lodgings etc where the place of birth is NK ie not known.

[jonw65]

Marriages
Alice Maud M Crook Q2 1906  so if my Maude would be age 24 Croydon  Names noted: Arthur Robert Bolton; Winifred Aubrey Garrad; John Ernest Wilkins

Alice Maud Crook Q4 1904 so if my Maude would be age 22 Shoredtich.  Charles Al Medcraft, Gilbert Henry Phillips, Florence Woodroof

Alice Maude M Crooke Q3 1903 so if my Maude would be age 23 Hartley Wintney, Hants.  George Wise

Alice M Crook  Q1 1918 so if my Maude would be age 36   Bromsgrove, Worc     Harry Rogers

Alice M M Crook Q4 1911 so if my Maude would be age 29    Paddington  Reinhold Bertram, Maud Crook, Mary A Gallagher, John P Moore (Child born George Bertram, GRO Reference: 1912  D Quarter in PADDINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 35)

Hi again, a bit of help with eliminating perhaps
Q2 1906
2 June 1906, Coulsdon, St John
Arthur Robert Bolton, 27, Clerk
+
Alice Maud Mary Crook, 31, father John Henry Crook (decd), Refreshment Manager

Q4 1904
23 Oct 1904, All Saints, Haggerston
Charles Albert Medcraft, 25, Baker
+
Alice Maud Crook, 28, 232 Globe Road, father Thomas Henry Crook, Boot finisher

Q3 1903
22 August 1903, Cove, Hampshire
George Wise, 31
+
Alice Maude Mary Crooke, 27, father John Crooke
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGZT-1VD7

Witnesses John Crooke, Phoebe Wise (info from army service record which says that George is a groom, born Binfield, Berks)

No more info on next two
Add in June qtr 1911, Hatfield, Alice M Crook
From his army service record, Jonah Cook married Alice Maud Crook, spinster, 30 April 1911, Little Heath. Two children also on the record. Jonah was 24 years 8 months old in 1916, a woodman.

I would like to find her death – I did find on Ancestry a 1913 Q2 entry for Birmingham, which could be her, but frustratingly cannot find it on FreeBMD or the gov BD site to order the death cert

It is on the new index
MATTHEWS, ANN       
Age at Death (in years):  76 
GRO Reference: 1913  J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 200

There is though an Ann Matthews of that sort of age in the Birmingham workhouse in 1911, it doesn't look like your lady
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCY-S6D

John

[ValJJJ]

Hi John

Last piece of info first - Ann Matthews in the workhouse being a button carder.  Well, who knows how she earned her living after leaving her house where she let lodgings.  I'll have to check the admissions register for that workhouse to rule her in or out.  Unless the info is online, that'll be another on the list for visiting Birmingham archives.

Thanks for finding that 1913 death.

Also thanks with helping narrow down likely Alice Maud Mary candidates.  The marriage at Little Heath might be promising as isn't Little Heath in the Birmingham area?  One to check into further.

Another angle, relating to thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828775.0 is connected to widow Charlotte Crook nee West and widow Kate Smith nee Crook.  There is a connection via addresses but it could just be coincidence.  Perhaps this commonality might be a clue to John Campbell's whereabouts at some point, and possibly Maud Crook. 

Kate Smith nee Crook (sister to Annie Crook in the asylum and the one who took in John C in 1902, returned from S Africa in 1907 after her husband died there.  I have a 1908 address for her at 38 Duchess Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham. She would have been 36, but as it was only 1908 I wouldn't expect to find her on an electoral roll.  Possible though.   I wondered if her mother Ann Matthews had moved to the Edgbaston area, or even this address, by 1908.  In the 1911 census, Kate Smith was in Bournemouth.

Then from electoral rolls, I found Charlotte Crook nee West (who was now Wardman having remarried) at 11 Duchess Rd, Edgbaston, Birmingham in 1922.  In 1923-25 she was at 8 Duchess Rd, Edgbaston, and in 1927-30 electoral rolls, she was at various numbers in Rotton Park Rd, Edgbaston. 

I wonder if there was a family link with Edgbaston.

[ValJJJ]

The Jonah Cook/Alice Maud Crook marriage is the wrong Maud - she's on the 1939 register with a birth date of 27 Nov 1891, whereas my Maud was registered as born in Q4 of 1882.  Shame, would have been nice to have found her.  Also hadn't realised how many Little Heaths there were in the country!

[jonw65]

Hang on a minute, there may be something here!
1911 census free index in Paddington, London
Jack Campbell, 13, born London
A boarder
Also a boarder in the household is Annie Crook, 28. Says born London
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW2H-WD7