Author Topic: Adoption records - Ireland  (Read 1115 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 27 June 20 00:46 BST (UK) »
Age at death of old people was often only an estimated or approximate age. Therefore year of birth, calculated from age at death, was approximate. E.g. estimated birth year for Charles was 1853. Estimated birth year for Catherine Rodden, a possible sister of Charles calculated from her age at marriage was also 1853.
As jcred26 said in reply #15 "sometimes it helps to go sideways". It's a recommended technique if documentation about the subject of a search is lacking.
The Rodden men listed by jcred in reply #15 were likely related to each other and perhaps to your James. 

Added. We don't know what information your brother has. We know only what you've told us and what we've found. Information we post on this thread is partly to help others assisting so that we're not duplicating effort. A collaborative approach often leads to one of us making a connection that others have missed.   
Cowban

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 27 June 20 08:44 BST (UK) »
Don't see this commented on in the thread yet-
... James Rodden, born 1816 in Donegal Ireland ..James apparently married a Catherine O'Donnell in Carlow, Ireland 1845 approx - (again no records to confirm that either) ...

Have you looked at a map showing location of Irish counties? A marriage anywhere in County Carlow is extremely unlikely-
http://www.sin.ie/2019/11/14/is-there-a-sense-of-hierarchy-between-certain-counties/
From Donegal (town) to Carlow (town) is 180 miles according to Google Maps directions.

To give an idea of scale in Ireland for that timeframe my grandfather's uncle (born 1850s) wrote in his memoirs that mother's family lived at the 'great distance' of 7 or 8 miles so they didn't see their maternal relatives often. This was in a part of the country with better roads and, being prosperous farmers, they would have made the journey with horse and cart.

It is far, far more likely that the marriage took place in or near Donegal. Keep in mind that marriages usually take place in the bride's parish- which may or may not be the same as the groom's. If you don't find the marriage record it may be that the relevant parish records don't cover that period (either don't start early enough or gap in records) or that that portion of the register is very difficult, or impossible, to read.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 27 June 20 18:30 BST (UK) »
Don't see this commented on in the thread yet-
... James Rodden, born 1816 in Donegal Ireland ..James apparently married a Catherine O'Donnell in Carlow, Ireland 1845 approx - (again no records to confirm that either) ...

Have you looked at a map showing location of Irish counties? A marriage anywhere in County Carlow is extremely unlikely-
http://www.sin.ie/2019/11/14/is-there-a-sense-of-hierarchy-between-certain-counties/
From Donegal (town) to Carlow (town) is 180 miles according to Google Maps directions.

Alternative information that James and Catherine married in Cloonmore 1845 in Daler's reply #12.
Birthplace Mayo for Catherine mentioned in that reply. ( Her birthplace was Donegal on 1901 census.)
Cowban


Offline Daler68

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 04:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Maiden,

Yeah we don't think the marriage information is correct in anyway now - because as I pointed out to my brother that James & Catherine had Mary Catherine 1832 & Bryan Bernard in 1841 - and being Roman Catholic in Ireland we presumed it very high unlikely they were married in 1845, after the birth of 2 children....but again, pure conjecture.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 19:52 BST (UK) »

There are numerous trees on Ancestry with the names James and Catherine being his parents
siblings on the trees
Brian 1842
Michael 1857
Grace 1860
Bridget 1863
Hannah 1865
Elizabeth 1866


There are gaps in the early births, there is no indication that they have the same mother.

2 more possible early siblings to add from information on their marriage registrations:
Margaret married 1872, stated to have been "full age". so she would have been born 1851 or earlier.
Catherine married 1883, stated age 30, giving her an approximate year of birth 1853, if she gave correct age at marriage.

Hi Maiden,

Yeah we don't think the marriage information is correct in anyway now - because as I pointed out to my brother that James & Catherine had Mary Catherine 1832 & Bryan Bernard in 1841 - and being Roman Catholic in Ireland we presumed it very high unlikely they were married in 1845, after the birth of 2 children....but again, pure conjecture.

Was Mary Catherine a different person from the Catherine who married 1883 at stated age 30?
If all those children were born to the same couple and if birth years are correct, that works out at 34 years of child-bearing. The only documented birth was Elizabeth, born 1866, registered 1867.
Consider that they may have been children from more than 1 marriage. A few widowers married 2 wives with the same first name or with the same surname. Both happened in 2 of my Irish families. I've come across it in others. 
Cowban

Offline Daler68

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 02 July 20 01:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Maiden,

Our Mary Catherine b 1832, died 31st Dec 1928, married a Francis McCarry b 1832, died 15th Feb 1915 - in Dunfanaghy 02nd Feb 1869

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 02 July 20 01:34 BST (UK) »
Our Mary Catherine b 1832, died 31st Dec 1928, married a Francis McCarry b 1832, died 15th Feb 1915 - in Dunfanaghy 02nd Feb 1869

The Mary Roddan who married Francis MCCarry on that date was a minor according to the marriage registration. That means she hadn't reached her 21st birthday. The earliest year she could have been born is 1848. See reply #7 by jcred.  Francis was "full age" so born 1848 or earlier.
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Offline Daler68

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 02 July 20 04:27 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I am not going to be posting in here anymore. It is doing my head in.

I only wanted birth/baptism and marriage certificates on James & Catherine - that's it - no one else.

But everything you are all bringing up is completely clashing with the information that 2 people within my family, who had paid Donegal/Irish genealogists several hundred's of dollar's to get the marriage & death certificates for all of the children of James & Catherine. Why they didn't get birth, marriage, details of James & Catherine at the time, I do not know.

But all the information you are bringing up is totally different to what official records we already have, and because I don't have those records in front of me, this is doing my head in.

I really do appreciate the information, you have provided.

Thank you once again - good bye.

Dale


Online Dundee

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Re: Adoption records - Ireland
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 02 July 20 06:10 BST (UK) »
I only wanted birth/baptism and marriage certificates on James & Catherine - that's it - no one else.......Why they didn't get birth, marriage, details of James & Catherine at the time, I do not know.

That was answered back in post #11.  If the family had always lived in Clonmore/Cloonmore and used the church at Clondahorkey then the church records no longer exist and no amount of searching will find records that have been lost.  I don't know how much clearer I can make that.

Debra  :)