Caroline CROSS

[Milliepede]

No marriage for Caroline that I can see.

I was looking for Jemima in 1861 and wonder if this is her in Tottenham but under same surname as householders

William Radcliff 38
Catherine Radcliff 30
Jemima Radcliff 29 unmarried servant born Croxton Cambs

[Greaves]

Milliepede - as you have discovered there are clearly family links between the Webbs and the Crosses. Jemima's mother was a CROSS and her sister Mary Ann married a CROSS. Moreover, the CROSSes are millers from Croxton, Cambs. All of which is consistent with the father of Caroline's first child being William CROSS, a miller, and Caroline's maiden name being given as WEBB.

If we assume that the father come from Jemima's immediate family there are a number of possible candidates: Thomas (b 1813), William (b 1819), Joseph (b 1825) and Charles John (b 1834). Thomas, William and Joseph are unlikely, as they were all married and living with their families outside the Tottenham area in 1851. Other male siblings are dead by 1853. Charles John seems the most likely given the name and that he was a miller from Cambridgeshire. In 1851, he was working with his brother outside the Tottenham area, but could have been visiting at the required time. In 1854 he married in Wisbech, before emigrating to New York in 1856.

Although it is tempting to pin the birth on Charles John, we should be aware that there were other Webb and Cross families in the Tottenham/Edmonton area, many of whom I am sure could be traced back to Cambs.

So I think the best we can conclude about Charles John was that he was illegitimate, to an unknown father. I wonder whether the fact that she had an illegitimate child was a barrier to Caroline having a church wedding to Thomas. The continuing lack of a record leads me to doubt that they formally married.

I am still puzzled by the birth of the second child being in Dorchester. What was Caroline doing in Dorchester?

This birth was also presumably illegitimate, given that the name on the certificate was CROSS not DANIELS. I note that Caroline continues the method of giving the surname of the father as her maiden name to the registrar. Moreover, the fact that the baptism was some 4 years later seems to confirm the assumption.

If there was a marriage it must have been between 1858 and 1862, though its geographical location remains problematic.

PS I am sure you are right about 1861C. I now have her in 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881.

[Milliepede]

Re the Dorchester conundrum

Is it possible the birth you found is for a different family because there is a Thomas George Cross baptised to William & Harriot and he is on the 1861 census with them in Dorset.

I checked a sibling and that had mothers name Daniel as well.

1861 here if you want to check it out

William Cross 36
Harriot 34
Mary Anna 9
Elizabeth Ann 7
Emma Jane 5
Thomas George 2
William Henry 9 months

Marriage 1849 Dorset William Cross to Harriet Daniel

[Milliepede]

Your Thomas Daniels is just plain Thomas on the baptism and 1861 census (no middle name George)
and birthplace Holloway Middlesex.

However haven't found a birth registration for him yet.

Do you agree the Dorchester birth is the wrong one?

[Greaves]

It would make sense, as the Dorchester bit has always puzzled me. But it was the only appropriate one I could find at the time.

In retrospect, I think you are correct.

Whilst we are talking geography, I am wondering about the Newington connection. Caroline’s family appears to come from Newington in South London. Certainly, the Caroline Cross who was working with Anne Daniels, came from Newington. Anne Daniels was the sister of Thomas, whom he eventually married. The Daniels come from the Tottenham area and I always assumed that Thomas met Caroline through his sister, that they got together and moved back north of the river.

But many of the Webb/Cross families from Cambs appear to have ended up in the Tottenham area, which makes sense given that the Great Cambridge Road runs from Tottenham to Cambridge.

Caroline appears to be in the Tottenham area before getting together with Thomas, if we are right about the parentage of Charles John. It’s getting more and more complicated. However, the two things that I need to find are clear: (1) the birth cert for Thomas and (2) the marriage cert for Thomas and Caroline.

[Milliepede]

However, the two things that I need to find are clear: (1) the birth cert for Thomas and (2) the marriage cert for Thomas and Caroline.

They may not be anywhere to find but have been looking at Thomas births with various surnames and spellings but no luck 

Do you know what registration district his birth should have come under had it been registered?
Not saying it wasn't registered but a possibility. 

[Milliepede]

Crazy thought but I wonder if Thomas had a different name when he was born (different first name) then when he was baptised he was called Thomas after her supposed husband 

Maybe he was a George and that's why the George was added at a later date.

[Greaves]

Many members of the DANIELS clan - usually first sons - are called George Thomas.

I have Thomas in all the censuses. In 1861 he is Thomas (3), in 1871 Thomas (12), in 1881 Private Thomas (22) having joined the RN in Portsmouth, in 1891 Thomas G (33), in 1901 Thomas G (43) and in 1911 Thomas G (52). Not sure what he was when he married Maria SLUGG in 1888.

As for his birth, the census returns consistently state Holloway, which makes sense as Anne, the next born, was born in Islington. The likely registration districts are either EDMONTON or ISLINGTON.

[Milliepede]

Not sure what he was when he married Maria SLUGG in 1888.

He was Thomas George.

On the 1891 census there was a step father listed with them and my spirits rose but no good, he was related to Maria not Thomas.