James Smith Parentage (Kilmaurs/Newton-on-Ayr)

[MonicaL]

You don't have to apologise, it is a confusing set of details 

The John Smith, Tollkeeper from England, from the 1851 census shows with family in 1861. He shows then as Gatekeeper. Age is mistranscribed:

John Smith 21 Gatekeeper b. England
Agnes Smith 78 b. Ireland
Agnes Smith 36 b. Galston
William Daw 26 grandson
Thomas Smith 4 grandson

Address: Drybridge, Dundonald, Ayrshire

I wonder if this is the entry for grandson Thomas www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYY9-TB6

Co-incidence there were two John Smiths, tollkeepers in Ayrshire around the same time  Maybe not. Think this family needs more checks really...

Monica

[Maiden Stone]

Birth record for Marion Smith, daughter. James' info - 44yo (est. birth year of 1811), birthplace - Newton-upon-Ayr.

 Does this mean that Marion was born in Newton-upon-Ayr or James was born there or both of them were?

[MonicaL]

Hi Maiden Stone

Marion was born in Dalry. It is father James who showed as born in Newton on Ayr on her birth cert (the joy of 1855 certs and the additional details included for one year).

Monica

[MonicaL]

What do people think? The same James Smith's signatures or two different James Smiths?

[kjmck]

MaidenStone - yes sorry I should have been more specific there. Those are the details for James' age and place of birth on Marion's birth record.

I noted that Dundonald is 8.5 miles from Newton-upon-Ayr. Kilmaurs is 14.1 miles from N-upon-A. Dalry is 18.4 miles from N-upon-A.

MonicaL I see that one of those certificates is from Agnes Smith nee Walker's death record in 1864, where is the other from? I don't think William Smith, who was the informant at James' death in 1887 would have just grabbed the occupation of Tollkeeper out of thin air, there has to be some sort of substance to it.

So Agnes was the daughter of James Walker a farmer & Margaret Porter. I can't seem to any baptisms for children born to John Smith & Agnes Walker anywhere in Scotland, nor a marriage between the two.

John Smith died 12th March 1866 aged 88, a surfaceman. Widower of Agnes Walker. His parents are listed as Alexander Smith & Margaret Fitzpatrick or Sedgewick (unsure of this name).

But still - No marriage & no baptisms to this couple. Hmm.

[MonicaL]

What do you think about the signatures? The same James or different Jameses?

Monica

[kjmck]

I kind of think they are from the same man, the movement from James into Smith, how they connect, how the S for Smith is written. What do you think?

[MonicaL]

I think it is the same man, your James. Signatures are very similar and distinct particularly for the form of some of the letters.

You are right. The signature for James Smith son is from him being the informant to his mother's death in 1864. You have seen that it was sister Agnes, who lived with parents for many years, who reported her father John's death in 1866.

The second signature with James as father is from 1861 and James reporting on the birth of his daughter Janet.

So, would be pointing towards confirmation that your James's parents were John Smith from England and Agnes Walker from Ireland. Can't say it will be easy for you there 

Cannot see any births for their children in Scotland but many people did not register or christen their children. Also, many registers have been lost or destroyed over the years. Only about a third of events are to be found in the OPRs. Even less if the family did not belong to the established Church of Scotland.

I have seen one marriage that could fit and looked at the parish register entry image but nothing there really to confirm whether it is the correct entry for John and Agnes. Their signatures are included...but can't think for them what to compare them with!

The marriage I saw is this one www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL4Z-P35 With John Smith showing as born in England and Agnes in Ireland, they could well have met in England but made their lives in Scotland.

Monica

[kjmck]

The marriage I saw is this one www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NL4Z-P35 With John Smith showing as born in England and Agnes in Ireland, they could well have met in England but made their lives in Scotland.

Where did you see that it states John was from England & Agnes was from Ireland on the Marriage record? I can't seem to see that info.