Helen or Hellen Dun or dunn

[trish1120]

I agree with Forfarian.

[bfr89x]

OK, I have now exhausted every avenue I am aware of and this is the final story.
Helen Dun or Dunn married John Edmond in Kilmaronock on May 29 1819.
She gave birth to 9 children between 1820 and 1838.
She died on August 3 1838.
I can find no records for Helen or Christian, the above information was taken from the headstone in Kilmaronock churchyard - thank you forfarian and Trish.
Am I at a dead end?
Regards,
Ron

[trish1120]

I would not give up yet as Helen may have not been born Dunbartonshire.

Try Familysearch for Helens born Scotland 1790-1801 in nearby Counties and see if you can eliminate any of them.
Eg find a Bapt and look for a Marriage same area 20-25 years later.

[MonicaL]

Ron, this looks to be Chritian's birth:

Christian Edmond
Birth Date: 3 Jun 1838
Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1838
Baptism Place: Kilmaronock,Dunbarton
Parents John Edmond and Helen Dun

Have you got the names of John Edmund's parents from his death cert?

Might help to consider possible naming pattern if John and Helen used their parents' first names for their children.

Monica

[bfr89x]

Thanks again to all.
As I cannot find another Helen Dun matching the info I have in the whole of Scotland I will assume that the Helen mentioned on the grave stone is she and follow her as much as possible.
I have found a family of Dun in the reasonably close village of Fintry where Helen was born which adds some credence to the issue.
She died very shortly after giving birth to Christian who also died within a couple of months maybe hinting at the cause of her death.
If we assume she is the correct lady the only problem is her age - born 1806, married 1819, first child born 1820, died 1838 at the age of 32 having given birth to 9 children.
Another grey area is that she had five younger siblings who died 1788, 1793, 1796, 1798 and 1802. Do the dates of these deaths appear to be very close given that she was the youngest and died at aged 32. It would be unusual would it not for all the family to die so young.
I can't help thinking this tree is the wrong one to be barking up or just maybe I have found a little bit of scandal in the family.
Is it unusual that her death date is on the gravestone but her age or birth date are not?
More grist to the mill and further thanks to you all.
Kind regards,
Ron

[Forfarian]

As I cannot find another Helen Dun matching the info I have in the whole of Scotland I will assume that the Helen mentioned on the grave stone is she and follow her as much as possible.

Do not make this assumption.

It is never safe to assume that the only person in the available records is the right one. There are many people whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived. But this Helen born in 1805 is not the only candidate.

If Helen had a child in 1838, it would be reasonable to suppose that she was born no earlier than 1790. She is unlikely to have married until she was at least in her late teens. It would have been legally possible for her to marry at age 12, but so unlikely as not to be really worth considering.

There are 25 Helen/Hellen Dun/Dunn baptisms between 1790 and 1807. Even discounting any born after 1801, there are still 16 of them, and there could be as many again whose baptisms are not on record.

I see that the children of John Edmond and Helen Dun(n) are Margaret, 1820; Agnes, 1821; William, 1823; Hellen 1824; John, 1826; James, 1830; Elizabeth, 1832; Robert, 1835; Christian, 1838.

If John and Christian followed the naming tradition, her parents' given names would have been John and Margaret. This is why you need to look at her husband's death certificate - if his parents were William and Agnes, it would suggest that they did follow the tradition.

You also need to look at the original baptisms of all 9 children. If the names of witnesses to the baptisms are recorded, these can be valuable clues to the wider family.

[wivenhoe]

What occupation do you have for John EDMOND?.

Do you see a second marriage for John EDMOND after the death of his wife, 1838?

If there is no second marriage, what happened to the several small children after their mother Helen died, 1838?  Who raised them?

[Forfarian]

If there is no second marriage, what happened to the several small children after their mother Helen died, 1838?  Who raised them?

See Reply #3 above, which suggests that John did not remarry. Presumably his eldest daughters Margaret and Agnes helped to bring up the younger children.