Tirrells in Cowfold area during 1700s

[MattD30]

Hi I am hoping someone here might be able to help me with a problem relating to the family of my ancestor Mary Tirrell who was christened in Cowfold in January 1741/42.

I know that Mary had 8 siblings and all were described in their christenings as the children of Thomas and Mary Tirrell [or Terrell].

The children were as follows

John Tirrell christened 11 Feb 1729/30 Cowfold [died bef 1743]

Joseph Tirrell christened 26 Jan 1731/32 bur 19 Mar 1731/32

Mary Tirrell christened 2 February 1736/37 bur 1 Jan 1741/42

Richard Tirrell christened 3 Feb 1740/41

Sarah Tirrell christened 1 Jan 1741/42

John Tirrell christened 21 Dec 1743 [died bef 1749]

Sarah Tirrell christened 12 June 1748 [died bef 1752]

John Tirrell christened 5 Nov 1749

Sarah Tirrell christened 12 Nov 1742

My ancestor is Mary Tirrell born 1741/42 however I cannot find a suitable marriage for a Joseph Tirrell to a woman named Mary in the Cowfold area pre 1729 which could fit with all these children.

The only marriage I have found is for a Joseph Tirrell to Mary Garton in Ifield on 17 Feb 1736.

There is a gap between the christening of Joseph Tirrell in March 1731/32 and Mary Tirrell in February 1736/37 and I wondered if Joseph could have been married twice [with both wives been called Mary] and if the marriage to Mary Garton was his second marriage.

What does everyone else think of this theory?

Can anyone else suggest any suitable marriages for a Joseph Tirrell to a Mary pre 1729/30 as well?

Many Thanks in advance

Matt

[tillypeg]

Hi Matt,

I cannot find a suitable marriage for Joseph Tirrell and Mary, having looked for a number of years!  They are my ancestors too - I believe you and I have corresponded by email re: the Wells/Holden lines.

You say: "I know that Mary had 8 siblings and all were described in their christenings as the children of Thomas and Mary Tirrell [or Terrell]."

Should that be "children of Joseph and Mary"?

Also, the Sarah you have as having been baptised on 1 Jan 1741/42 should read Mary, i.e. "your" Mary, the second Mary, though I can find no burial for the first Mary baptised 2 Feb 1736/37, just assumed that she died before the second Mary’s birth/baptism.

To fill the gap, there is a baptism at St Peter, Cowfold for Sarah Tirrel on 10 Feb 1733/34, daughter of Joseph & Mary.  So she is the first of three Sarahs.

I will be interested to see if anything turns up for this marriage.

[Pheno]

Ifield is not that far from Cowfold so could be the correct marriage.  Also Ifield is close to the Surrey border so if it were a second marriage is it conceivable that an earlier one might have been in a Surrey parish?

Pheno

[MattD30]

Hi Matt,

I cannot find a suitable marriage for Joseph Tirrell and Mary, having looked for a number of years!  They are my ancestors too - I believe you and I have corresponded by email re: the Wells/Holden lines.

You say: "I know that Mary had 8 siblings and all were described in their christenings as the children of Thomas and Mary Tirrell [or Terrell]."

Should that be "children of Joseph and Mary"?

Also, the Sarah you have as having been baptised on 1 Jan 1741/42 should read Mary, i.e. "your" Mary, the second Mary, though I can find no burial for the first Mary baptised 2 Feb 1736/37, just assumed that she died before the second Mary’s birth/baptism.

To fill the gap, there is a baptism at St Peter, Cowfold for Sarah Tirrel on 10 Feb 1733/34, daughter of Joseph & Mary.  So she is the first of three Sarahs.

I will be interested to see if anything turns up for this marriage.

Hi

First sorry for the obvious errors in my post, I typed it in a rush before heading off to work and obviously forgot to check what I wrote lol!

I'm glad I am not the only person who hasn't been able to find any other marriage for Joseph to a Mary. You're right that we've been in contact regarding the Wells and Holden families btw. Mary Tirrell married Daniel Wells and their ganddaughter Winifred Wells marroed George Holden.

I am going to investigate the Garton family a bit to see if that throws up any clues, especially in any wills.

First though I'll correct the details in my original message so it makes sense lol!

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best Wishes
Matt

[tillypeg]

More rushing Matt    Daniel Wells married Mary Stone - her parents were Thomas Stone and Mary Tirrell.   

Thanks to Pheno for the reply and suggestion.  There is a marriage on FindMyPast listed as from the Fleet Register: Joseph Tarrall bachelor bricklayer and Mary Harding spinster, both of St George Hanover Square, Middlesex on 30 May 1726.  I have emailed the Sussex Family History Group to ask if this marriage appears in their "Strays" lists for marriages of Sussex people away from their usual district.  I don't think I have found any reference to the Cowfold Joseph Tirrell's occupation.

However, there are baptisms for 3 children to this couple at St George Hanover Square but the third one is almost the same time scale as "our" Tirrell couple's first child in Cowfold.  That would have been too easy a solution!   

Sarah Turril born & baptised 25 July 1727,
Mary Turril born 7 Sep 1728 baptised 22nd and
Elizabeth Tyrrel born 24th of ? baptised 15 Feb 1729/30.

As we have John Tirrel baptised 11 Feb 1729/30 at Cowfold, I think this rules out this marriage, unfortunately.

[jonw65]

Outside possibility. Throw it in anyway, perhaps it will be eliminated.
There were Terrys in Cowfold, is it possible they could be involved in some way, at least for the early Joseph/Mary births? Terry/Terrell/Tirrell, etc?

A marriage at nearby Itchingfield, 5 Feb 1726
Joseph Terry + Mary Hughes, both of Cowfold

Indexed on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV6Y-HBW

They also have the image of PR, and we can see it originally said the groom was John, crossed through for Joseph
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SX9-WTW

BT here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1M3-97Q?i=668&cat=581068

Could this be Mary? A baptism of a Mary Hughs in Cowfold,  2 August 1702
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWDH-2H6

After that marriage, there is a baptism at Cowfold, 21 April 1728
Elizabeth, daughter of Joseph + Mary Terry
Parish register here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRTG-N2

Can't see a BT for that year? But a note sent in, apparently in 1828 saying there is no entry in the Cowfold Register(s) of any baptism, marriage or burial between 1 January 1728 and 5 April 1729. How did he make that out?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D1DW-2JQ?i=114&cat=75082

Anyway, after that 1728 baptism of Elizabeth, I don't think there are any more Terrys baptized in Cowfold to Joseph and Mary. Lot's of possible explanations of course.

Another marriage in Sussex, perhaps not likely, down in Hastings
25 June 1725, St Clement
Joseph Trill + Mary Wood
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6KQ-PNT

John

[jonw65]

A Joseph popped up in Bolney at some time

From the archives catalogue, see also West Sussex Poor Law Database
A list of people who have certificates in Bolney
Taken in 1763 and added to
Number 15 (last on page)
Joseph Terrell & his wife from Cowfold. N.B. They have been gone or dead many years
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1Q5-N3?i=792&cat=581099

[tillypeg]

Oh that all looks very interesting jonw65, thanks for looking and posting.  I have to rush out for a couple of hours but will be back later to look at it all.  Many thanks.

[tillypeg]

No doubt Matt will be along later to look at all this, jonw65.  I think it could all be possible, as the baptism for Elizabeth Terry as first child on 21 Apr 1728 fits in nicely before the baptism of John Terrell on 11 Feb 1729/30.

The link for Joseph & Mary's marriage, image 538 of 653, is viewed more clearly on the previous page, image 537, as the left margin with the dates is shown in full, nice and clearly.

There is also a baptism for Joseph Terry at Cowfold on 5 March 1701/02, son of John & Susan Terry of Beeding.  (if only Susan had been Sarah, seeing as how the Terrells were fond of that name, this might have clinched it!  Perhaps it is wrong, as in the amendment in the marriage John/Joseph)

I did have a note of the Poor Law database re: Joseph in Bolney, thank you for reminding me.

Will be interested to see what Matt makes of your discoveries.  It is his posting after all.  Thanks again.