Author Topic: Fredolin and Elizabetha Schmeider aboard the Fanny Kirchner from Germany in 1858  (Read 1098 times)

Offline Leisa

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Hi Leisa

Have you looked for a baptism record in NSW?

Essie

Hello Essie,
Yes I have tried that as well.  He was born on the ship in port in 1858 the same time they arrived in Australia.
Thank you,
Leisa

Offline Leisa

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Good Morning,  :)

Did the couple have children born in the colonies?  ... younger siblings for Carl? If so,  have you checked those birth certs for details about Carl?  In Qld, Vic and NSW you can often find that the youngest born's birth cert lists the name and then ages of each of the then living older siblings. 

ADD

I have phoned an ancient living rellie, a retired senior officer from NSW bdm,  to check re 1858 births, but I feel sure that while it was compulsory to register births, that the two obvious hassles were 1) did the couple know that (could they read English) and b) did they know that births en route to NSW could be registered up to 18 months after arrival?

Have you sought the ship's
 Logbook  for mention of the birth ... it may include passenger names ... So too the ships surgeons diary.

JM.

Thank you JM.  Yes I have purchased two books about the Fanny Kirchner.  The ship's passenger list is not inclusive.  I didn't think of the ship's log or surgeon records.  I wonder where I could start searching for that.  Carl was the eldest child.  His brother and sisters were born in Ipswich near Peak Mountain where they lived.  Trove shows newspaper records of them earlier than when Fridolin purchased land there.

Sincerely,
Leisa

Offline Leisa

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Hi All,
Here are a couple of other threads from Leisa about the SCHMEIDERs

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=774267.msg6275569#msg6275569

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=637009.0

Agreeing with JM here that I have never heard that births on board are registered in the native country of the parents.

The information from JM's relatives will be of great interest as they are an endless fount of knowledge in such matters. ;D

Sue

Thank you Sue for helping me again.  With kind regards, Leisa


Offline Leisa

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From my research there are years missing when they arrived in Sydney to when I can see my great, great, grandfather on the electoral roll in 1870.

I don't know what you mean by that.  There are plenty of references on Trove through the 1860's and a number of children born in Queensland.

To find them travelling to Queensland you would need to go to Queensland archives and see what records they have for coastal vessels arriving.  It would most likely be a government steamer.  If they arrived in March 1858 and their son was born in Queensland on 8 May 1859 then at least it isn't a huge amount of time that you would need to search.

Debra  :)

Hello Debra, what I meant was that using Trove, I have found my ancestor's names mentioned in the Peak Mountain Ipswich Qld area before Fridolin was on the electoral roll.  Also their son was born on the ship that they came out on in port at Sydney harbour.  I agree with you that it would more than likely be a government steamer.  I have also looked at Trove for steamer's manifests of passengers travelling from Sydney to Brisbane in 1858.

Thank you also for assisting me.
Leisa

Online davecapps

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Here´s a list of people thanking the Captain.  There´s no Schmeider mentioned

https://vereine.genealogy.net/maus/auswanderung/fanny_kirchner.html

Dave


Offline Leisa

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Thank you all for helping me with my research.  I am unsure how to reply to you all individually, so please forgive me for doing so now.  I did try last week, however, I believe that you might of not seen my posts.

Louisa Maud - Thank you for you kind words.

Majm - Yes, Fredolin's other children were born in Ipswich.  Thank you for suggesting to purchase the youngest child's birth certificate to see if Carl Frederick's name is listed on it. I am unsure if Fredolin and Elizabetha were able to speak English, however from Trove newspaper articles, there are comments that they had said that were in English.  Again, I am unsure if they knew they could register their first born son that was born on the ship in Australian waters with the government after 18 months.  The ship's surgeon is a great idea to look for a record, however, again I am not sure how too.  I have located the logbook online.  Sadly not all passengers are recorded in the records.

Sparrett - I am not sure where I heard that information from that children born on foreign ships were registered with their country or origin.  Thank you for clarifying that for me.

Dundee - My great grandfather was born March 1858 while the ship was in quarantine.  His gravestone says this date.  I have ordered his death certificate online as well.  The newspaper articles from Trove show that their was a birth on the ship.  His birth on the ship which was in quarantine for small pox in Port Jackson...a story passed down through the family, can be seen in the shipping report for Port Jackson in 1858.  I have also checked Trove for passenger lists from 1858 travelling from Sydney to Brisbane.  Sadly, I am unable to find my great, great, grandparent's names.

Essie - I have checked the NSW bdm as well.  Thank you.

Dave Capps - Thank you for sending the info through of the ship's manifest from German archives and online.  I too have seen this information.  However, I have also read that the total manifest is not complete from my research.  A Trove article from the Shipping Gazette Sydney Trade, dated Monday 26th Sept, 1859, states that there were 214 passengers upon the ship and one birth from Bremen.

I do hope that I am replying on the right page now.  Again, I apologise for not knowing how to use the chat and reply to you all individually. 

Thank you again everyone for replying and assisting me. 

I am very grateful again.

Sincerely,
Leisa

Offline louisa maud

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Happy hunting Leisa
LM
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Offline Lisa61

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Re: Fredolin and Elizabetha Schmeider aboard the Fanny Kirchner from Germany in 1858
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 20 January 21 00:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Leisa!

Can you please give the names of the two books you purchased re the "Fanny Kirchner"?

I've been researching this ship and her 1857/58 voyage to Sydney and would be very interested in these.

Ships' captains were supposed to register deaths and births upon arrival in port. However, that didn't happen with several of the 'German' ships arriving here around that time.

(I do know of some instances where German immigrants wrote home to relatives, or their pastor/priest, advising of births/deaths and had these entered in the church records of their parish.)

You mention a log-book being on-line. Do you mean the Sydney Shipping Master's report?
http://marinersandships.com.au/1858/03/004fan.htm

The number of immigrants reported to be aboard the "Fanny Kirchner" varies, depending on the source; 214, 210, 203, 200, 179 - and there's debate whether or not Cabin passengers and infants under 1 year were included in those totals. Certainly, there were more than those who signed letters of thanks to the Captain. (There are two - the one on the Die Maus, Bremen, website and the one appearing in the "Sydney Morning Herald" 09 Mar 1858.)

Likewise, the reported number of deaths varies - the Health Officer's Report states 4 deaths, 3 of which were infants, the "SMH", publishing the Health Officer's Report, states 2 deaths, and another source says 2 adults and 'several children'. However, all agree on the one birth taking place.

There is a difficulty, however, with this child being your ancestor. A male child by the name of JANSON was born during the voyage of the "Fanny Kirchner'. (His mother died soon after arrival and her death was the subject of an Inquest.) If it is accurate that only 1 birth took place, it can't, therefore, be that of your Carl Frederick SCHMEIDER.

Additionally, the "Fanny Kirchner", as per the Health Officer's Report, was not placed in quarantine and there was not small pox aboard. (The "Armin", which arrived in late 1858, did have small-pox, but this doesn't fit with your ancestor's stated date of birth, the 16th Feb 1858. This is also problematic as the vessel was still at sea then - not in port.)

I know how frustrating this must be for you and hope you do find something that will give you the answers you're looking for. And, of course, if you do, I'm sure there are many of us who would be interested to hear of it!

Rgs
Lisa