Author Topic: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census  (Read 1485 times)

Offline margaret1

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WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« on: Tuesday 07 July 20 12:07 BST (UK) »
I've spent about a year researching my husband David's family tree and am having great difficulty with his paternal side. David's father, Terence Arthur Williams (b. 05/09/1939, d. June 2002) was fostered at about age seven. We know that Terry's mother was Edna Williams, born abt. 1915 - death date unknown. There was no father's name on his birth certificate but could possibly have been called Arthur Ryan.
David has done a DNA test with Ancestry.com, uploaded his DNA results to GEDmatch and separated his mother's line from the matches. So far nothing close has shown up, 198cM being the top match, but there are many more  matches mostly from the Isle of Man which are possibly Terry's paternal side. His top 3 matches with Ancestry have not responded to messages sent and do not have  family trees to search.
We only have the following spoken word knowledge about Edna Williams and some handwritten notes from Terry himself concerning Edna's whereabouts in the 1940s and 50's:
- Edna was thought to have worked and/or boarded at Westminster House in Ellesmere Park, Manchester. (approx August 1941).
- Edna spotted socialising regularly in the White Horse pub, Eccles, Manchester.
- Edna worked at Henry Lord's (Veterinary Surgeon) at 46 Gilda Brook Road, Eccles, Manchester.
- Edna lived in a flat above Barry's Barbers on Gilda Brook Road, Eccles, Manchester.
- Terry remembered his mother Edna taking him on the train from Manchester to Liverpool and visiting a sweet shop owned by members of her family possibly her parents. He ate so many sweets that he was sick on the train journey home! (1939 Reg. has Hugh Edmund Williams, sweet shop proprietor of Crosby, Liverpool and family, including an Edna Williams b1916 but this does not appear to be our Edna unfortunately).
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=831336.0
- Edna worked (managed?) at the RAF Association Club branch in Eccles, Manchester.
- Edna worked at the Broadway Cinema Cafe in Eccles, Manchester, together with Mrs Edith Lowry, (deceased).
- Approx. 1951/52 Edna worked at Greengate & Irwell and/or the Dunlop Rubber Company, Manchester.
- From Terry's notes, another possible male associate of Edna's was Mr Arthur Heald Green b1913 of 13, Knowsley Ave, Eccles.
Terry was fostered age about 7, to Mrs Edith Lowry (deceased) and husband at 37 Lightoaks Road, Salford, Manchester. Edna stopped visiting him soon after this (1946 -47).
Terry was born at Crumpsall Hospital, Manchester and his birth certificate has Edna residing then at 9 Piercy Street, Failsworth, Manchester. In the 1939 Register, Hugh T and Lydia Williams are listed at this address, but not Edna even though the Register was taken only 3 weeks after Terry's birth. I have not yet been able to locate Edna in the 1939 Register nor have I been able to determine Edna's relationship to this couple.
Terry tried to track down his mother in the 1970s. He found evidence through social services in Manchester that he may have half-siblings, sharing Edna with him as their mother. He lost interest after learning that.  Edna may have lived in Salvation Army hostels in Salford/Manchester.
In spite of having so many clues I have been unable to find a birth, death, census information, parents etc., I would be grateful for some help and some fresh sets of eyes to evaluate this information.
margaret
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down

Offline lancsann

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 15:20 BST (UK) »
could this be possible - there seem to be no babies listed but there are several closed records which could mean that the death of Terence has not been updated in the register

1939 register
Edna Williams 20 Feb 1915  Eccles M.B. Lancashire England
83 Home For Unmarried Mothers Regent Street

Offline rosie99

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 07 July 20 15:46 BST (UK) »
Couple from 9 Piercy Street  :-\
Marriage Sep qtr 1904 
Adams    Lydia       
Williams    Hugh Thomas       
W. Derby    8b   774

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline margaret1

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 08 July 20 01:08 BST (UK) »
could this be possible - there seem to be no babies listed but there are several closed records which could mean that the death of Terence has not been updated in the register

1939 register
Edna Williams 20 Feb 1915  Eccles M.B. Lancashire England
83 Home For Unmarried Mothers Regent Street

Thank you lancsann - this seems very likely.

How would I/my husband go about updating the register to see if any of the closed records are that of baby Terry?

margaret - trying not to get too excited!
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down


Offline margaret1

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 08 July 20 02:03 BST (UK) »
Couple from 9 Piercy Street  :-\
Marriage Sep qtr 1904 
Adams    Lydia       
Williams    Hugh Thomas       
W. Derby    8b   774

Thank you rosie99... I searched FreeBMD Births and there were no matches for Edna Williams born Jan/Feb/Mar 1915 all counties with mother's maiden name Adams. ::)
margaret
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down

Online Dundee

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 08 July 20 04:05 BST (UK) »
It looks like Hugh and Lydia were living in Denbigh, Wales in 1911.  Hugh was living and working in the county asylum and Lydia was on her own at home.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7V6-PBN

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VX-SDH

It is possible that Edna herself was fostered/adopted.

Debra  :)

Offline margaret1

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 08 July 20 06:44 BST (UK) »
Thank you Debra for the 1911 census information for Hugh T and Lydia Williams - Denbighshire  eh?
I wonder if they had any children?

I hadn't thought that Edna could be adopted/fostered - interesting concept - thank you for that. It would certainly explain why David is getting scant DNA matches for Williams.

margaret
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down

Offline amondg

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 08 July 20 07:30 BST (UK) »
There is an Edna Williams registered Toxeth Park March quarter 1915 mmn Crawford

ADDED
William Edward Williams married Ellen Crawford 4 February 1903 St Cuthbert  Liverpool

Offline margaret1

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Re: WILLIAMS Edna Salford /Manchester -Birth/Death/Parents/Census
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 08 July 20 07:42 BST (UK) »
There is an Edna Williams registered Toxeth Park March quarter 1915 mmn Crawford

Thanks amondg I'll check that out.

margaret
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down