Author Topic: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)  (Read 1063 times)

Offline Andrew65

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Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« on: Wednesday 08 July 20 23:25 BST (UK) »
Hello,
Samuel Smith (1796-1856) married Mary (c1790-1866). They had a daughter Frances (b.1831 in Chelsea). Samuel's will indicates Frances as his only child.

In the 1851 and 1861 census Mary is recorded as born in Reading or Mortimer. Her birth year through 3 census's and her death cert ranges from 1790 (death) to 1795 (1841 census).

I have looked at marriages in London/Middlesex, Berkshire and Norfolk (where Samuel was born) between 1811 and 1831, and traced the Mary's, but none seem to fit the Mortimer link.

Can anybody advise or suggest some next steps?

Thank you

Andrew
Strathbogie, Australia
Wiltshire, Devon, Sussex, London, Cheshire, Essex, Norfolk, etc
Cooper, Wilkins, Taylor, Hawley, Chignall, Pavey, Woodland, Snelson, Smith (unfortunately) - Its endless really

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 July 20 11:59 BST (UK) »
Is there a place called Mortimer or is it something that has been misread, is it written clearly on the information you have?
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Online BumbleB

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 July 20 12:09 BST (UK) »
1851 - HO 107 1693 folio 72, page 2 - definitely Mortimer

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
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Offline tonepad

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 July 20 12:43 BST (UK) »
Mortimer Common, generally referred to as Mortimer, is a village in the civil parish of Stratfield Mortimer in Berkshire. Mortimer is in the local government district of West Berkshire and is seven miles south-west of Reading.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortimer_Common


Tony
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #4 on: Friday 10 July 20 01:21 BST (UK) »

Samuel SMITH died 1856....where and when please?.

When was the Will written?.  What names for witnesses?. What names for executors? What names for beneficiaries? What did the estate consist of?

"..Samuel's will indicates Frances as his only child"

How is this indicated....exact wording please.




Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #5 on: Friday 10 July 20 02:44 BST (UK) »

Ancestry London BDM

St James Church Islington    14 October 1851
Groom:       COOPER John    full age....bachelor........butcher
Residence:  St Dunstan Stepney
Father:       Robert COOPER, clerk

Bride:         SMITH Frances   minor with consent....spinster
Residence:  Holloway
Father:        Samuel SMITH    gentleman

Witnesses:  Samuel SMITH      ***** SMITH

**** could be Caroline?    Who is this SMITH witness?   All parties sign.       

Offline Andrew65

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #6 on: Friday 10 July 20 06:50 BST (UK) »
Hello and thanks for the follow up questions.

Hopefully the below provides sufficient information.

Samuel Smith details
Born -  2/5/1796 at Framingham Pigot, Norfolk. (as were all the siblings mentioned in will – most siblings older)
Died  - 6/12/1856, at 23 Manchester Tce, Islington – Aged 60, Gentleman. (had been  a milkman/dairyman in various other documents including wifes will.
Will (executors wife Mary Smith plus William Scale and Thomas Jarvis – friends). Written 20/12/1855,. Proved 11/2/1857.
I have. pdf of the will, but it is three pages long and challenging to read.
Estate appears to consist of freeholds and leaseholds and ready monies.  ? residence at Manchester Tce, plus 2 leaseholds (27 Osnaburgh St, Regents park and 12 Seymour Place, Euston Square)  . Values are not noted in the will
Main beneficiary is wife Mary Smith. 
Daughter Frances Cooper, wife of John Cooper (son in law) is only child mentioned  - wording is “my daughter Frances Cooper. This phrase is repeated several times as Frances and John Cooper are referenced. 
Will also provides that the children of 6 brothers (one of whom is deceased) and 1 sister are provided for, but no note of amount or percentage of whole that I can decipher.
Seems to refer to trusts (maybe pre-existing) and the rules that will apply to them in future.

(note- I have suspected that there may have been other children who predeceased their father, but have not located any reference, and the detail relating to nieces and nephews suggests that if they did exist they were without surviving issue at the time of the will)
Frances was the only child in the 1841 census

Marriage witness at Francis’s wedding Caroline appears to be the daughter of Samuel's brother John (I have no more on her as yet)
Wiltshire, Devon, Sussex, London, Cheshire, Essex, Norfolk, etc
Cooper, Wilkins, Taylor, Hawley, Chignall, Pavey, Woodland, Snelson, Smith (unfortunately) - Its endless really

Online LizzieL

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #7 on: Monday 13 July 20 16:20 BST (UK) »
Have you discounted marriage to Mary Jarvis on 6 May 1829 at St Martins in the Fields. One of the executors was a Jarvis. Witnesses were Cha (possibly Charles) Perks and Joanna Eltham.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Andrew65

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Re: Mary from Mortimer - seeking guidance (or answers!)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 July 20 01:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Lizzie,

That marriage is a good possibility given its time and location. I had seen the entry as Jones not Jarvis (clearly a miss transcription), which gives the Berkshire checking more options.

Finding Mary Jarvis (or variations)  born anywhere near Mortimer at around 1790 is more of an issue. Images of the parish registers don't seem to be on line - which means I can't trawl through them.

Not finding much for Thomas either! or Joanna Eltham.

Andrew
Wiltshire, Devon, Sussex, London, Cheshire, Essex, Norfolk, etc
Cooper, Wilkins, Taylor, Hawley, Chignall, Pavey, Woodland, Snelson, Smith (unfortunately) - Its endless really