Author Topic: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather  (Read 538 times)

Offline LMFAO

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Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« on: Thursday 09 July 20 09:03 BST (UK) »

My 2x grandfather born in 1843 was illegitimate . Luckily his mother named his father as William Miller labourer on his birth certificate and on his baptism record.
I narrowed down three possible suspects living in the same area in 1841.
One probably too old - one too young and one the same age as the mother.
So I tentatively added him to my tree and traced his parents. George Miller and Ruth Verrier born c.1771 Somerset ( cannot find baptism record for her) but obviously no proof  it was him and also I cannot find any trace of this William after 1841.
I was contacted by someone with a DNA match of 27 cM across 1 segments.
There was no obvious match in our trees so we worked back together and found her 4x great grandfather was a William Verrier born c.1780 Somerset ( cannot find baptism record for him. ) We cannot find the family connection between these two - with this amount of DNA could they have been brother and sister ?
There is absolutely no other connection in our trees .
Is this enough evidence to confirm I have the right William Miller?
With so many DNA matches to wade through It seems too good to be true to be contacted by someone out of the blue and to solve the puzzle of my 3xgrandfather.

Offline Flemming

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 July 20 10:09 BST (UK) »
Hi there, can you say how you know Ruth and William Verrier were born in these years in Somerset if bps haven't been found for them - and do you know a specific location in Somerset?

Have you checked non-conformist bps for that time period? Another thought is that Verrier sounds French, possibly Huguenots? It also may be middle English for glass maker.

There is Rose Verrier bp 1775 in Curry to John and Betty but I've only seen a transcript for this. It's always possible this could be Ruth but mistranscribed. I've not found any obvious other children for this couple.

It may be worth contacting the local records office (if/when open) or heritage organisation to ask if there are any gaps in parish record years.

Was William (born 1843) known as Miller or Verrier, or did his mother marry and William take her married name?

Offline LMFAO

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 July 20 13:19 BST (UK) »
Hi
Thank you for your reply.
This is how I got my theory of who William Miller my 3x grandfather may-have been

My 2 x grandfather was Alfred John Woodbury born 2/11/1843 Stream Lane Taunton
From his birth certificate- Mother Fanny Woodbury father William Miller labourer
Fanny Woodbury was. baptised 3/2 /1813 West Bagborough Somerset.
In 1841 she was in North Curry servant
Piece 941 book 1 Folio 12 page 16

In 1841 there is William Miller (agricultural labourer)living with Ruth Miller and siblings
In North Curry
Piece 941 book 2 folio 10 page 14

William Miller baptised 10/01/1813
North Curry Somerset
Father George Miller
Mother Ruth Miller

George Miller married Ruth Verrier
Marriage or Bann Date
05/12/1797
North Curry Somerset

I found Ruth Miller (Verrier) in 1841 and 1851
In 1851 she is aged 80 living with her unmarried daughter Harriet
Place of birth given as North Curry
Schedule 45 piece 1922 Folio 275 page 11

My DNA match has a 2xgrandmother
Jane Verrier born 1821 Bishops Lydeard she married in 1843 naming her father as William Verrier
I cannot find her in 1841 or a baptism.
I cannot find William Verrier on a census.

This is the only link we have - where my family history in Somerset and surrounding counties her is mainly Durham and Japan

I have not checked non-conformist baptisms for that time period- how would I go about that


Offline Flemming

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 July 20 13:54 BST (UK) »
The Genealogist website has NC records which are subscription but the index is free to access. You may have to try different name variants - Varrier, Vurruer, Vyrier, etc.

Also it looks as though George Miller and Ruth Verrier married by licence. If she was born in 1771, she would have been 26 in 1797, so it could have been a second marriage and she may have been a widow. The licence may state this.

Offline LMFAO

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 09 July 20 13:59 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for this information and you help.
I will definitely  look further into these records.

Offline Flemming

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 09 July 20 14:57 BST (UK) »
Is the YOB for Jane Verrier (1821) consistent across marriage records, censuses and death/burial? It's just that there's Jane Verrier bp 1816 in Norton Fitzwarren (not far from Bishops Lydeard) to mother Ann, no father. It's possible that father William Verrier on Jane's marriage record could be her grandfather. I've seen that a few times where grandparents raised their illegitimate grandchildren and/or the groom/bride didn't want to admit to being illegitimate.

Does the marriage entry state William's occupation and whether he was deceased?

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 July 20 15:40 BST (UK) »
The DNA amount and the naming is a good indication that you are on the right track

There could be parish records of a bastardy order
Women were more likely to be awarded payments if they named the child after the father .

I have some similar cases .
Looking into one family found the brother  of distant DNAmatch was a sailor and had died before birth of child who my ancestor named after him .!


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline LMFAO

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 09 July 20 16:34 BST (UK) »
I cannot find a baptism for Jane  ( using 1821) nor can I find her in 1841.
On the marriage record it just states of full age and father William Verrier labourer. It does not say he is deceased.
In 1851 as Jane Cross she is 30 years old.
I cannot find her on a census in 1861
however I have found a burial record for a Jane Cross in 1860 which gives her age as 45 giving a birth year of 1815.

Offline Flemming

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Re: Is this enough evidence to confirm 3xgrandfather
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 09 July 20 17:44 BST (UK) »
Is that Jane Cross buried in St Giles in Bradford on Tone? That could be her. Husband John looks to be a widower in the 1861 census and is living in Bradford St Giles.