Author Topic: Cannot find any trace of two relatives  (Read 1251 times)

Offline RGB

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Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« on: Friday 10 July 20 10:44 BST (UK) »
Dear All,
I do hope you can help me as on my own I just cannot find out what happened to two of my relatives.

My great grandad was William Smith (1855-1905) and Annie Read Luckhurst (1857-1934).

On the 1911 census it shows they had had 13 children of which 7 had survived. The 13, all Smiths, born in Forest Gate, Essex were;

Florence Annie Louise b 1882 d 1894.
Lilian Alice Ormesby b 1883.
Annie Elizabeth (not entirely sure this is correct name or date) b 1884.
Sydney b 1886 who married Florence Hollis Bailey and died sometime between 1911 & 1939.
Mabel Victoria b 1887 d 1905
Ruth Emmeline Salmon b 1889 d 1971
Horace b 1890 d 1908
Leonard b 1891ish
Winnie b 1892 d 1913
Oswald b 1893 I think Oswald and Victor died very young
Victor b 1895
Herbert (my grandad) b 1896 d 1947
Reginald b 1898 d 1912.

I found an old newspaper cutting on the funeral of my grandad Herbert Smith on 15th March 1947 and was intrigued to read flowers from;
 Miss L Smith
 Mr L Smith and P Hodgson.

I wonder if Miss L Smith is Lilian Alice Ormesby
I wonder if Mr L Smith is Leonard Smith and P Hodgson is Phyllis Hodgson who I found in my Nan's old date book with 18 December written beside it. I do not know who Phyllis is.

I can find no trace of Lilian nor Leonard after 1911census nor whether Leonard is partnered with Phyllis. I was heartened to read about the flowers at the funeral. However I am completely flummoxed though.

Would anyone be able to willing to lend their expertise in tracing what happened to Leonard and Lilian after 1911 and together with any titbits on the other children that you might find on the way too. I would be so very grateful.

Very many thanks
Roger

Markham, Gurney, Grimwood

Offline mckha489

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #1 on: Friday 10 July 20 10:50 BST (UK) »
For a start, Leonard definitely born 1891. No Ish required

SMITH, LEONARD       LUCKHURST 
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 160

Added...I canít see Annie Elizabeth or any other female Smith with MMN Luckhurst other than those you have listed in the GRO births at all, but there is a male

SMITH, BERTIE       LUCKHURST 
GRO Reference: 1886  S Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 238
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

guest189040

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #2 on: Friday 10 July 20 11:07 BST (UK) »
Could this be Lilian in 1939?

Lilian A Smith
Gender:   Female
Marital status:   Single
Birth Date:   11 Oct 1883
Residence Year:   1939
Address:   75
Residence Place:   Camberwell, London, England
Occupation:   Shirt Machinist
Line Number:   22
Schedule Number:   198
Sub Schedule Number:   1
Enumeration District:   AEWR
Borough:   Camberwell
Registration district:   25-4

She is in the same house as an Edith M Smith b5/1881

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #3 on: Friday 10 July 20 11:24 BST (UK) »
I can see a different pairing of Lily Smith and Phyllis Hodgson which seems to fit.

Have sent PM.
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos


Offline mckha489

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #4 on: Friday 10 July 20 11:44 BST (UK) »
Deaths Mar 1980   (>99%)
HODGSON    PHYLLIS EVELYN    18DE1898    REDBRIDGE    14   1355
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline mckha489

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #5 on: Friday 10 July 20 11:57 BST (UK) »
Possibly in 1964 Phyllis and Lillian are at 87 Earlham Grove Westham
Along with Israel & Sadie Seitz
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline suzard

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #6 on: Friday 10 July 20 12:06 BST (UK) »
were Phyliss and Lilian nurses?

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline RGB

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #7 on: Friday 10 July 20 12:56 BST (UK) »
Thank you.

Bertie could be my Grandad Herbert. He was know as Bert. He was born on 13 August 1886 so I presume the same person?

Lilian was never shown with a profession except assisting at home. I guess this was necessary as the Smith Family seemed quite sickly and the majority sadly died very young. A shirt machinist would be new but I do not recognise an Edith Smith . However I could be wrong about Annie Elizabeth and Edith M could be a daughter of William and Annie.

Lily and phyllis as nurses is an idea that had not occured to me at all. I suppose they could be but unfortunately I can not verify or confirm. Sorry.

Lilian and Phyllis living together in 1964 in Earlham Grove sounds really likely. The Family home was in Forest Gate starting at 13 Ramsay Road, then 4 Sydney Road, 25 Disraeli Road and then 105 Earlham Grove.Redbridge is not far away either.

Really grateful for what you are all doing here and what might yet be to come.
Roger
Markham, Gurney, Grimwood

Online Dundee

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Re: Cannot find any trace of two relatives
« Reply #8 on: Friday 10 July 20 13:47 BST (UK) »
Bertie could be my Grandad Herbert. He was know as Bert. He was born on 13 August 1886 so I presume the same person?

You only have 12 children in your list, Bertie makes 13.  Bertie and Herbert were two different children.

SMITH, BERTIE
Mother's maiden surname: LUCKHURST     
GRO Reference: 1886  S Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 238

SMITH, HERBERT
Mother's maiden surname: LUCKHURST     
GRO Reference: 1896  S Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 205

Bertie's death is registered in the Sep quarter 1886.

Debra  :)