Beatrice Lilian Turner

[johnP-bedford]

I feel now that it would be a good idea to filter facts about George Henry Turner, who had married Emma Ellen Reed, but then later was with a lady called Jane.

Here's what I've put together over past week or so.... it's a lot to take in & there may be more later

George Henry Turner was born 1847 in Langford, son of John Turner & Sarah Hare.
1851 census G H Turner age 3 in Henlow with maternal grand-parents Hare
1861 census with parents & siblings in Langford age 13

At age 22 he married Emma Ellen Reed age 17 on 2 Oct 1869 at Clifton Baptist Chapel

1871 census at 19 Langley road Luton, age 24, baker with wife Emma age 18
Daughter Beatrice Lilian Turner born 7th Sept 1872  at London Road, Luton, GHT a baker

They then move to Middlesex.....
July 1877 son Clarence Henry Thomas Hare Turner born 2 Upper Ogle Street, Marylebone
June 1879 daughter Blanche Mabel Madeline Edith Turner born 76 Great Portland Street
Apr 1880 Blanche died age 10 months 68 Charlotte Street 
Aug 1880 Clarence died age 3 68 Charlotte Street
Father GHT now a house painter, mother Emma ne Reed 

Nov 1879 George & Emma at 68 Charlotte Street – as per Beds Archives

1880 Electoral Roll  possible GHT 179 Gloucester Road, Marylebone ??

1881 census GHT ??

1881 census Gillespie Road, Highbury,  Kezia Hardy age 48 widow & daughters Jane 24 & Hannah 20 

Apr 1882 Elizabeth Pope born 42 Foley Street
Oct 1883 as per Beds Archives, Jane Pope alleged GHT of 42 Foley Street, the putative father
Sept 1884 Georgina Pope born 42 Foley Street

Around 1884 GHT separated from wife Emma – as per Beds Archives

Dec 1884 Ernest Charles Hardy born Islington, son of Hannah Hardy

15 Apr 1887 Violet Hetty Hardy born Gillespie Road, Highbury, Islington, daughter of Hannah Hardy born, illegitimate – could GHT be the father ?

1890 Electoral Roll GHT at 3 Little Titchfield Street, Cavendish Square

1890 GHT married Jane Hardy ??

1891 census at 6or7 Little Titchfield Street, George Henry Turner age 43, born Langford, House Painter with wife Jane Turner age 34 born Bury St.Edmunds ,Tailoress  ne Hardy

1891 census 16 Myrtle Road, Highbury, Kezia Hardy 58 widow, daughter Hannah age 30 & grand children Ernest age 6 & age Violet 3 both born Islington   

10 June 1891 Violet Mabel Ellen Turner born, mother Beatrice Lilian Turner, at 12 Chesterfield Street, father unknown 

Oct 1891 as per Beds Archives – Emma Ellen (Reed) Turner was married to GHT – but seperated from him 5/6 years ago – she married ?Alchin 
Nov 1891 as per Beds Archives - letter from Emma Ellen Turner c/o 12 Chesterfield Street 

London Electoral Roll, 1893 – 1900, GHT at 9 Little Titchfield Street

21 July 1896 Marylebone - Hetty Sarah Hare Turner born – mother Hardy, assume Jane, father GHT

1901 census at 9 Little Titchfield Street
GHT age 52 House Painter & wife Jane age 44

1901 census at 16 Myrtle Road
Kezia Hardy, widow age 68 & daughter Hannah Hardy age 40 single, laudress & grand-daughters Kitty Turner age 4 & Violet Hardy age 13  & grandson Ernest Hardy 16

Sept 1902 Kezia Hardy died Islington age 70

London Electoral Roll, 1902 – 1909, GHT at 9 Little Titchfield Street

Mar 1907 Ernest Charles Hardy married Florence Annie Jeffries at St.Pancas RD

June 1908 Marylebone Jane Turner died age 51 (1857)

Mar 1909 Islington, Violet Hetty Hardy married Frederick Ernest Walker
They had son Frederick George in Sept 1910 Hackney RD

1911 census at 15 Summerhouse Road, Stoke Newington (Hackney RD)
Frederick Walker age 27, born Stoke Newington, carrier and wife Hetty Walker age 24 born Islington & son Frederick age 8 months born Stoke Newington

1911 census at 9 Little Titchfield Street
GHT age 63, widower House Painter, married 21 years, 1 child
Hannah Hardy sister in law, single age 50 housekeeper
Hetty Sarah Hare Turner age 14 Tailoress



Regards John

[johnP-bedford]

(continued........ )

London Electoral Roll, 1913, 1914 & 1915, GHT at 9 Little Titchfield Street

2nd Sept 1918 Corporal Frederick Ernest Walker killed WW1 France

19 Jan 1918 Hetty Sarah Hare Turner age 21, address 9 Little Titchfield Street, father George Henry Turner, house decorator – married Ernest MacDonald, age 34, staff sergeant AOC, at All Souls Marylebone

London Electoral Registers at 9 Little Titchfield Street, George Henry Turner from 1918 up to 1934 *
As well as GHT at that address, other members of his family resided there, the property was divided over 5 floors. In 1918 Frederick Ernest Walker & wife Violet Hetty, then 1919 to 1924 is Ernest McDonald & Violet Hetty Walker. 1925 to 1930 we now have (Mrs?) Hannah Hardy & Hettie Sarah McDonald & John William Weston & his wife Violet Hetty. This carries on 1931 to 1934 adding Frederick George Walker .           

Dec 1924 Marylebone widow Violet H Walker married John William Weston, widower
They had son Douglas Alfred Mar 1925

Dec 1934 Marylebone Frederick George Walker married Olive Turner

Sept 1936 Hannah Hardy died age 75 (1861) Marylebone RD
June 1936 George H Turner died age 88 (1848) Kensington RD

1938 & 1939 Electoral Roll at 9 Little Titchfield Street are Ernest McDonald  & wife Hettie Sarah, plus Frederick George Walker & wife Olive, plus John William Weston & wide Violet Hetty

1939 Register at 9 Little Titchfield Street
(1) John W Weston 1879 bricklayer & Violet H 5/4/1887 & Douglas A 1925
(2) Frederick G Walker 1910 painter/paper hanger & Olive 1915 & Derek 1935
(3) Hetty S H McDonald 1896 widow, tailoress

June 1946 Violet H Weston died Marylebone age 59 (1887)

1946-1954 Electoral Roll at 9 Little Titchfield Street
Hetty S H McDonald, Frederick & Olive Walker, & John Weston (& Douglas Weston from 1950)

Sept 1953 Douglas A Weston married Patricia J Tompson at Wandsworth RD

Dec 1969 Hetty S H McDonald born 21/7/1896 died Rochford, Essex


that's it for now

[Calpe 1704]

With many thanks to johnP-bedford for so much information on this line of the family Beatrice Lilian Turner, daughter of Emma E. Reed, who was the daughter of Edith Taylor (keeping their maiden names here for ease.

I will endeavour to check all the information and enter it into my Family Tree Maker tree that i'm using.

I will work backwards from the last post.

With so much information pouring in, i had to switch-off for a while to re-establish where i was.
 
With the greatest of thanks
Calpe

[Calpe 1704]

johnP-bedford tells us in italics.

I have placed my questions under his comments.

1851 census G H Turner age 3 in Henlow with maternal grand-parents Hare.
Are their names given by any chance?

1861 census with parents & siblings in Langford age 13
Parents being John Turner and Sarah Mare?
Are the sibling names given?

They then move to Middlesex.....
Any reason known why?

1881 census Gillespie Road, Highbury,  Kezia Hardy age 48 widow & daughters Jane 24 & Hannah 20
Who is Kezia Hardy?

Apr 1882 Elizabeth Pope born 42 Foley Street
This a Census Return date? Elizabeth Pope would be who?

Sept 1884 Georgina Pope born 42 Foley Street
This is the Bed Archive entry date not her birth date?
Georgina's parents would be?

Dec 1884 Ernest Charles Hardy born Islington, son of Hannah Hardy
Who is this?

15 Apr 1887 Violet Hetty Hardy born Gillespie Road, Highbury, Islington, daughter of Hannah Hardy born, illegitimate – could GHT be the father ?
Who is this?
Why the suspicions 'could G.H.T. be the father'?

1890 GHT married Jane Hardy ??
Who is this? Why the query 'married Jane Hardy'?
So what happened to Jane Pope and their child Georgina Pope?

1891 census at 6 or 7 Little Titchfield Street, George Henry Turner age 43, born Langford, House Painter with wife Jane Turner age 34 born Bury St.Edmunds ,Tailoress  ne Hardy
So G.H.Turner was married to Emma E. Reed. Legally separated about 1884?
Had an affair with a Jane Pope, but never married?
Then we see in 1891 census he was apparently married to a Jane Turner, nee Hardy, aged 34 in the 1891 census.
 
1891 census 16 Myrtle Road, Highbury, Kezia Hardy 58 widow, daughter Hannah age 30 & grand children Ernest age 6 & age Violet 3 both born Islington   
Who are these people?

10 June 1891 Violet Mabel Ellen Turner born, mother Beatrice Lilian Turner, at 12 Chesterfield Street, father unknown 
Might we ever find out?

Oct 1891 as per Beds Archives – Emma Ellen (Reed) Turner was married to GHT – but seperated from him 5/6 years ago – she married ?Alchin 
As mentioned above 'Around 1884 G.H.Turner separated from wife Emma – as per Beds Archives'.
So she may have married a Mr. 'X' Alchin?

21 July 1896 Marylebone - Hetty Sarah Hare Turner born – mother Hardy, assume Jane, father G.H.T.
We know that from the Beds Archives that about 1884 G.H.T. separated from his wife Emma E. Reed.
This is quite interesting, as it presumed that G.H.T. was also the father of this Hetty Sarah Hare Turner? Is there a birth date? So the (birth?) record shows that the mother was Hardy (no first name, assumed Jane) and the father was defiantly G.H.T.?

The many other facts you have given John, i can't really question them until i'm clearer about the answers to my questions.

With many thanks
Calpe

[Calpe 1704]

From the Beds FHS Biggleswade baptism transcripts (1637-1852), for parents Samuel & Edith:

Baptisms - St Andrew, Biggleswade:
20 May 1832 - Mary Taylor REED; cow leach
26 Jan 1834 - Sarah REED; farrier
22 Nov 1835 - Mary Taylor REED; cow leach
09 Sep 1835 - Ann Taylor REED; cow leach
06 Jun 1841 - Samuel Taylor READ; farrier; privately
04 Jun 1843 - Samuel REED; farrier; born 31 Dec 1840
04 Jun 1843 - Thomas Taylor REED; farrier; born 02 Mar 1843

A late thanks for this.
So the parents of all these children are Samuel Reed (Read) and Edith Taylor?
Clearly Edith must have insisted on her surname being passed on.

I only have these names, and they don't match 100% with the ones above: -
Mary Taylor Reed    born about 1836
Anne Taylor Reed     "   "   "      1838
Samuel Taylor Reed  "   "   "      1841
Eliz (add Taylor?) Ann Reed  "    1847
Edith (add Taylor?) Reed "    "   1851

Obviously Mary Taylor Reed and Samuel wouldn't have been Baptised twice.

[Calpe 1704]

On 1861 census in Langford, John & Sarah with George age 13, plus 6 other children.

These are all John Turner and Sarah Hare's children?

The four i have are:-
Elizabeth 1842, William 1840, Thomas 1846, George 1847

[johnP-bedford]

On 1861 census in Langford, John & Sarah with George age 13, plus 6 other children.

These are all John Turner and Sarah Hare's children?

The four i have are:-
Elizabeth 1842, William 1840, Thomas 1846, George 1847

The others are John 1854, Frank 1856, Anne 1858 & Laura 1860.
They also has son Charles 1864 as per the 1871 census.   

Can you not access the 1861 & other censuses yourself to check out the family ?

Cheers John

[johnP-bedford]

From the Beds FHS Biggleswade baptism transcripts (1637-1852), for parents Samuel & Edith:

Baptisms - St Andrew, Biggleswade:
20 May 1832 - Mary Taylor REED; cow leach
26 Jan 1834 - Sarah REED; farrier
22 Nov 1835 - Mary Taylor REED; cow leach
09 Sep 1835 - Ann Taylor REED; cow leach
06 Jun 1841 - Samuel Taylor READ; farrier; privately
04 Jun 1843 - Samuel REED; farrier; born 31 Dec 1840
04 Jun 1843 - Thomas Taylor REED; farrier; born 02 Mar 1843

A late thanks for this.
So the parents of all these children are Samuel Reed (Read) and Edith Taylor?
Clearly Edith must have insisted on her surname being passed on.

I only have these names, and they don't match 100% with the ones above: -
Mary Taylor Reed    born about 1836
Anne Taylor Reed     "   "   "      1838
Samuel Taylor Reed  "   "   "      1841
Eliz (add Taylor?) Ann Reed  "    1847
Edith (add Taylor?) Reed "    "   1851

Obviously Mary Taylor Reed and Samuel wouldn't have been Baptised twice.

I'm assuming that as Samuel was baptised first privately in June 1841 he was done again in June 1843 (as he was born Dec 1840) at a more formal ceremony with his brother Thomas.

The first Mary 1832 most likely died but at a point after sister Sarah was baptised 1834 otherwise she may have been named Mary. i cannot find a burial for her but there is a burial on 19 May 1835 of an unnamed REED aged 4, at Bigglewade as per the NBI, which could be her?, wonder if the parish registers say if this was a son or daughter of named parents.
 

[johnP-bedford]

1851 census G H Turner age 3 in Henlow with maternal grand-parents Hare.[/i]
Are their names given by any chance?

1851 census Henlow..
Head of household is Ann Hare age 62 widow, baker, with her are her children Ann age 36, Elizabeth 26, Charles 24, Francis 22, James 20 & Emma 18 plus the 2 year old visitor G H Turner.... assumed son of Sarah Turner nee Hare born 1819.
On 1841 census in Henlow is Ann Hare age 50 baker, & assumed children Thomas, Ann, Stephen, Elizabeth, Francis, James & Emma. 
I haven't found any baptisms for these Hare children of widow Ann to confirm father's name, but it is Thomas according to marriage cert of Sarah Hare to John Turner in 1839, and a Stephen Turner is a witness to that marriage. Plus there's a burial at Langford of Thomas Hare on 22 Apr 1839 aged 56.