Author Topic: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?  (Read 1897 times)

Offline LaytonLily

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James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« on: Saturday 18 July 20 15:19 BST (UK) »
I hope someone can help me identify if the James Arthur Fisher aged 25yrs in 1917 who was taken to court for wearing a Grenadier Guards uniform that he didn't qualify for, is my relative.   I have found army papers on Ancestry showing he enlisted in 1913, showing as 3rd Dragoon Guards of the Line No. 8316.  His next of kin given as Beatrice Fisher his sister.   (He was born 1891 and his parents were James Arthur and Charlotte Fisher.)

In the newspaper articles James Arthur Fisher in Birmingham Court says he was a commissioned officer, Captain in 14th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.  It also says his wife is residing in Conway where he was previous to coming to Birmingham, where all his family live.

How can I verify if they are one and the same man ? 
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline Christine53

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 July 20 16:18 BST (UK) »
There is a medal card for Captain James Arthur Fisher , Royal Warwickshire Regiment. The card has an additional note " see James Annesley Fisher ". James Annesley Fisher married Mary Trevitt 16 Nov 1915 at Toxteth Park St Andrew. His occupation is given  as Captain Royal Warwickshires.  He is also listed in the Pension cards index as Captain James Arthur Annesley Fisher. He appears to be a different person from James Arthur Fisher , Dragoon Guards.
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Offline LaytonLily

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 July 20 16:46 BST (UK) »
Did you see the marriage certificate for the marriage details ?  did it gives his father as James Arthur Fisher, butcher (or was silversmith on one census like his father).  Somehow it doesn't sound like either my JAF or the one in the newspaper.
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 18 July 20 18:49 BST (UK) »
A court report in the Birmingham Daily Gazette of 31 January 1917 records that Fisher said he had been a private in the 6th Dragoon Guards and had bought himself out on the eve of war. That does tally with James Arthur Fisher 8316 (in the 6th from 14/10/1913).
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Offline LaytonLily

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 18 July 20 19:11 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your reply.   I have all that information but does JAF in the Court case / newspaper articles
saying he was a private in the 6th Dragoon Guards  tally with my ancestor's army papers saying he was in the 3rd Dragoon Guards of the Line No. 8316.?   What regiment would either of them be ?

The JAF in the newspaper article also says he was a commissioned officer, Captain in 14th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.   
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 18 July 20 19:43 BST (UK) »
I donít know if this is same person - have you seen this article ?

Hereís a snippet from Evening Despatch 05 April 1940

James Arthur Fisher of no fixed address was charged with presenting himself to be a member of His Majestyís forces wearing the uniform of a captain of the Royal Horse Guards.

When arrested admitted he was not entitled to wear the uniform he says in his statement he served in last war and retired in 1918 with the rank of captain......

He went to Kenya and invested in a coffee plantation returning to England four years ago........

Superintendent gave Fisherís record which included a conviction at Birmingham for falsely wearing the uniform of an Army captain some years ago.


Offline LaytonLily

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 18 July 20 19:54 BST (UK) »
Ladyhawk  -  I am just typing up that very article !   He was caught out twice in both wars  - he was very persistent !

I think there is a high probability the chap in the newspaper articles is my James Arthur Fisher but need  something to clinch it.  There are army documents on Ancestry I can see for him but do not have membership at this time.    If it proves he is one and the same, I will be wanting to do research on that time in Kenya next on the coffee plantation.
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline CraigM63

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 18 July 20 20:38 BST (UK) »
The medal index card for James Annesley Fisher states that he was a captain in the R. War. R., which I presume is the Royal Warwickshire Regiment. It also has annotation to say 'See James Arthur Fisher'. James Annesley Fisher's address at the time he applied for his medals in September 1919 is given as 55 Park Street, Mayfair W.

James Arthur Fisher's medal index card repeats the information that he was a captain in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, but this time his address is given as 67 Pershore Road, Edgebaston, Birmingham. In this case, his first entry to a theatre of war was in France on 7 July 1917.

Can you tie either of these addresses to your James Arthur Fisher?

Offline LaytonLily

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 July 20 20:43 BST (UK) »
CraigM63    -  no I do not believe that is 'my' James Arthur Fisher.   But then it doesn't seem to tie up with the chap in the newspaper either.
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA