Author Topic: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?  (Read 1867 times)

Offline LaytonLily

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 19 July 20 19:50 BST (UK) »
Oh No !!!!   Getting to be too much !   Just when i thought I had it secured with ShaunJ's comments about the 6th and I can see on my JAF enlistment papers he went from 3rd to 6th Dragoon Guards - though didn't know if that was the Warwickshire Regiment as stated in newspaper.

Annesley is certainly a recognisable name when searching but it doesn't seem to help here !  Perhaps he was leading a double life.     | am getting less convinced they are the same person, not more.

it says in newspaper articles  about JAF  he was from 'a member of a well known Birmingham family' and although I would not have thought that fitted 'my' JAF, his father certainly owned land and property in Birmingham and left over £12,000 in his Will in 1910, so I thought it might fit. 

But I don't think the chap commissioned as a Pilot Officer in 1940 is the same as the JAF in the newspaper as he was in court   -  again   -  charged with  wearing the uniform of an officer in the Royal Horse Guards falsely in 1940.

ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #19 on: Monday 20 July 20 10:52 BST (UK) »
Quote
he went from 3rd to 6th Dragoon Guards - though didn't know if that was the Warwickshire Regiment

The 6th Dragoon Guards was the regiment that he bought himself out of in 1914. They were known as The Carabiniers. The army file has some 1914 correspondence about him being found in possession of a Carabiniers uniform when the record showed that he had attested for the 3rd Dragoon Guards - but it was confirmed that he had in fact transferred to the Carabiniers (6th Dragoon Guards).
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #20 on: Monday 20 July 20 16:32 BST (UK) »
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But I don't think the chap commissioned as a Pilot Officer in 1940 is the same as the JAF in the newspaper as he was in court   -  again   -  charged with  wearing the uniform of an officer in the Royal Horse Guards falsely in 1940.

The 1940 court case was on 5 April. His 3 months imprisonment would have been up by early July. Captain J A Fisher's WW1 RAF Record has a note that he had applied to join the RAFVR, dated 20 August 1940. J A Fisher 88308 was commissioned in December 1940. It is possible that it's the same man.

The Gazette records that F/O J A Fisher 88308 was to resign his RAF commission wef 12 May 1943 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36027/supplement/2327
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #21 on: Monday 20 July 20 16:50 BST (UK) »
I just noticed that the CO of 6th Dragoon Guards, who signed James Arthur Fisher's discharge papers in July 1914, was Lt Colonel J Annesley.
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #22 on: Monday 20 July 20 17:26 BST (UK) »
Police Gazette, 8 January 1926

"APPREHENSIONS SOUGHT. METROPOLITAN POLICE DISTRICT— D Division.— For obtaining £ 50 by worthless cheque.— James Arthur Fisher, aliases Major J. A. Fisher, Capt. C. K. Fisher, Capt. G. L. Wylie, Capt. George Fennick, Captain C. K. Fisher- Rowe, Capt. George Renwick and Captain Anderson, CRO No. 2931-17, b. 1892, 6ft, c. fresh, h. lt brown, e. blue, small lt brown moustache; dress, lt grey suit, white double collar, white shirt, green striped tie, lt trilby hat, dk overcoat, boots. Very smart military appearance. Pre con of a minor offence at Birmingham. Made acquaintance of loser, said he would take loser's son back with him to Nairobi where he had property and teach him coffee farming free of charge. On 29th ult. asked loser to change a cheque which was written on private paper for £50 on the Chartered Bank of India, 38  Bishopsgate EC which he did. Cheque subsequently returned marked " No account." Warrant issued. Inf. to CRO. Wednesday, January 6, 1926
LATER INFORMATION — Remanded at Leeds  P. Sess. till 14th inst, charged with forgery. Resided with a woman friend, obtained possession of her Post Office Savings book, forged signature and withdrew her money"

There are various newspaper reports of the subsequent trial (see for instance the Yorkshire Evening Post of 27 January 1926, page 8 "Dishonoured cheques of a Planter"). He got 4 months.
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Offline CraigM63

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #23 on: Monday 20 July 20 17:48 BST (UK) »
Confirmation of his appointment as a Pilot Officer, with promotion to the war substantive rank of Flying Officer with effect from 22 November 1941 was posted on 22 October 1941 in the London Gazette.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35498/supplement/1338

One wonders where the rank of Squadron Leader mentioned in the report on his 1946 marriage in Kenya came from. Although given his apparent track record, perhaps not too surprising. 

Offline LaytonLily

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #24 on: Monday 20 July 20 18:01 BST (UK) »
Oh my !   So are we talking about one and same man here or 2 or 3 or are any of them 'my' James Arthur Fisher, or all of them !   Not just leading a double life but many lives.   Haven't been able to keep up with all the information you are finding, but am going to enjoy trying to unpick it !

Perhaps someone has written a book about his exploits ?   Like the grandfather of the actress Ruth Wilson.

Interesting that the description of his features in Police Gazette 8 January 1926 'complexion fresh, hair light brown, eyes blue' corresponds with the description on 'my' JAF army enlistment details .  Now if only it also said 'circular scar on each shin' then I have him !

Now can anyone confirm this is all one man and my JAF or not ?

ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #25 on: Monday 20 July 20 20:02 BST (UK) »
His excuses at the 1917 and 1940 "officer impersonation" trials about being overkeen and getting ahead of himself are very similar to those given by a James Arthur Fisher on trial in Plymouth in 1922 for claiming to be a fully qualified medical doctor and surgeon (Western Morning News 20 May 1922, page 3).
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Offline CraigM63

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Re: James Arthur Fisher - Was he a Captain or not ?
« Reply #26 on: Monday 20 July 20 20:12 BST (UK) »
His excuses at the 1917 and 1940 "officer impersonation" trials about being overkeen and getting ahead of himself are very similar to those given by a James Arthur Fisher on trial in Plymouth in 1923 for claiming to be a fully qualified medical doctor (Western Morning News 20 May 1922, page 3).

I saw that one too, although I thought that that James Arthur Fisher's stated age of 28 in 1922 wasn't quite right. There was also a James Arthur Fisher in trouble later that same year for passing a bad cheque, which also sounded like a fit. You could write a best selling novel about this James Arthur Fisher, his life has all the ingredients.