William James Wilson - bartender

[quiffdo]

Hi everyone

Years ago I ordered a marriage cert for William Wilson and Sarah Jane Whelan from somewhere (Emeraldancestors I think) and when the email came back to me they kindly said that in the parish register it actually gave both parents for the groom and the bride.
The grooms parents were William Wilson and Ann Rice and that the father was desceased and was a Publican by trade.
I could never find a marriage or any children (including William) for William and Ann. I know that this is not unusal and just assumed I would never get any further information on my direct line as is the curse for a lot of Irish folk.
Recently however I discovered that I also ordered another marriage cert from the same people for another Belfast direct line and the parents tey gave me (Once again in the parish register) was incorrect. The father was correct but they had mixed up the mother with the female witness (This marriage was located on Ancestry) so I was able to see this for myself.
The reason I mention all this is because recently I have found a birth for a William Wilson in the correct year (death cert gave me his age) with parents William James Wilson who was a Bartender  and Mary Jane Purvis. This marriage unfortunately is not on Ancestry. The information of the birth is on Ancestry and the bartender occupation is from another tree of a relative that I believe she ordered.
The father William james Wilson (prviding it is the correct man) was desceased by the time William (his son) was married in 1885. There are a few deaths for William Wilson that may well match the age of the father on https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ but I am wondering if there is a way I can order a copy of the death cert/photocopy but put down that his occupation must be bartender/publican so I don't have to buy numerous certs?
In England if you order a cert you can put down things that must match and if they don't they will email you and you only have to pay something like £4 instead of £11 for their trouble.

Sorry for rambling on.

Dan Wilson

[quiffdo]

This is the birth registration and the fathers occupation looks to be Bartender which matches the sons marriage cert of Publican.

[quiffdo]

Now I look properly it actually looks like his occupation is Carpenter 

[aghadowey]

You haven't given any idea of dates or religion so can only given general advice.

Civil marriage records for N.I. counties are online (free) up until 1921 on Irish Genealogy site. After that date GRONI, Belfast has certificates more than 75 years old viewable online after registration & credits. Registration of Catholic marriages started in 1864 but non-Catholic ones, including Registry Office, from 1845.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/

If it is a pre-1864 Catholic marriage then the only record will be the church register. Many are online (also free)-
https://registers.nli.ie/

Years ago I ordered a marriage cert for William Wilson and Sarah Jane Whelan from somewhere (Emeraldancestors I think) and when the email came back to me they kindly said that in the parish register it actually gave both parents for the groom and the bride.
The grooms parents were William Wilson and Ann Rice and that the father was desceased and was a Publican by trade.

Date and church?
Note: Church of Ireland and Roman Catholic churches use a parish system but other denominations have different systems.

Added- when and where was marriage of William Wilson & Sarah Jane Whelan?

[quiffdo]

Hi

Sorry completely blanked on dates. William Wilson and Sarah Jane Whelan was 5th September 1885 at St Peters Church Belfast. I have seen the marriage cert but not seen the actual parish register where apparently they have listed both sets of parents.

Also all my Irish lot are Catholic as far as I have researched. I have never seen any non-Catholic ancestors.

Dan

[aghadowey]

Marriage 1885 St. Peter's R.C. Church, Belfast gives James' father as William Wilson Publican (dead)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10872/5970860.pdf
The marriage also gives James' age as 21 so if accurate born 1863/1863 so there may not be a birth certificate.

The online marriage records for St. Peter's don't go up to 1885-
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0429

Ulster Historical Foundation has more marriage records (for a fee)-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0429&parish=St.%20Peter%27s,%20Belfast%20city

[Kiltaglassan]

The reason I mention all this is because recently I have found a birth for a William Wilson in the correct year (death cert gave me his age) with parents William James Wilson who was a Bartender  and Mary Jane Purvis.

Now I look properly it actually looks like his occupation is Carpenter 

Indeed it is a carpenter.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03521/2295457.pdf

Look at the occupations both above and below 'carpenter'. The registrar uses a squiggly 'er' to finish the word. Hackler (below) and Draper and Labourer (above).

KG

[aghadowey]

It's possible that William Wilson died before registration of deaths (1864) or that he lived outside Belfast. Here's a William Wilson, publican, died 1860 and his Will mentions a son James but that's only a possibility.
The Will of William Wilson late of Ballinahinch in the County of Down Publican and Grocer deceased who died 16 February 1860 at Ballinahinch aforesaid was proved at Belfast by the oaths of John Hanna Merchant and John Wilson Publican both of Ballinahinch aforesaid and John Moore of Drumgiven Farmer all in said County of Down the Executors.
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx

[quiffdo]

Unfortunately that probably won't be my guy as the sons name is William Wilson with his middle name possibly bein James.

I think perhaps the marriage is indeed William Wilson and Ann Rice after all. I may well have to go through churches one by one and see if I can locate a possible marriage.

Thank you both for the help. Very much appreciated.

Dan