Please can someone help me get my head around this?

[Annie65115]

Oh gosh, you have all been busy on my behalf! Many thanks!

I'm interested in the reference to the death at the Savoy Hotel, as Fulshaw/Fulchar Holyland, father of Catherine, Barbara and Sophia, also died there.

As regards which William was Henry's father -- I really don't know, and this is one of my frustrations. Yes, it would be wonderful to find a son of Fulshaw's called William but boy have I looked, and in vain.

[cuffie81]

Can only find the three Holyland sisters, baptised to Fulcher and Barbara Holyland. Would be nice if they had a brother William, who married Sophia something, but not finding anything that matches that. Could Henry be Sophia's illeg son and father William was invented?. Henry wasn't baptised until he was almost 3 which seems a bit unusual.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but they did appear to have a son named William.

Baptisms - St Michael & All Angels, Kingsnorth, Kent
26 Apr 1774 - Mary Holyland; Fulcheer & Barbara
23 Jul 1775 - Catherine Holyland; Fulcher & Barbara
14 Nov 1776 - William Holyland; Fulcher & Barbara
19 Oct 1777 - Jane Holyland; Fulcher & Barbara

Baptisms - Finsbury, London
15 Dec 1779 - Sophia Holyland; Fulshar & Barbara; salesman; born 25 Nov
24 Mar 1782 - Barbara Eleanor Holyland; Fulshar & Barbara; salesman; born 19 Feb



This looks like it may be daughter Jane although I can't find the actual marriage record:

Oxford Journal
19 Apr 1806
Married
At Christ Church, Mr Beel, of Commushall Row, to Miss Holyland, of Newgate Street.

Pallot's Marriage Index:
Jas. Hickson Beal
Jane Holyland
1806
Christchurch Newgate, London


The Holyland family do seem to have a connection to Newgate Street:

London City Directories [?] - 1802:
Holyland Fulcher, carman, 8, Newgate-st and Holborn Bridge

Holden's Triennial Directory - 1805-1807:
Holyland Fulcher, carman, 8, Newgate st

[cuffie81]

Coming back to the marriage of Noah and Sophia the Pallot's Index entry suggests Noah was a widowed and Sophia was not, which would tally with the newspaper marriage announcement.

Pallot's Marriage Index:
Noah Nicholls, w
Sophia Holyland
1828
Chapel R'yl, Savoy

[cuffie81]

I'm interested in the reference to the death at the Savoy Hotel, as Fulshaw/Fulchar Holyland, father of Catherine, Barbara and Sophia, also died there.

I'm assuming you're referring to the burials of the 2 Catherines, likely dau. and wife of Noah, the burials are on Anc and don't have any further details than what I've posted. I've had a search through the newspapers but couldn't find any death announcements, nor any other records. Maybe someone else can dig something up.

As an aside, the age at death of Catherine, in 1822, does tie in well with the birth date of Catherine Sophia, 12 Sep 1811, as recorded on her baptism.

[jbml]

I'm assuming you're referring to the burials ... Maybe someone else can dig something up.

But hopefully not the bodies! 

[cuffie81]

I'm assuming you're referring to the burials ... Maybe someone else can dig something up.

But hopefully not the bodies! 

Well, now you've got me thinking about how long DNA survives for... quite a while apparently.

[LizzieL]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but they did appear to have a son named William.

Baptisms - St Michael & All Angels, Kingsnorth, Kent
26 Apr 1774 - Mary Holyland; Fulcheer & Barbara
23 Jul 1775 - Catherine Holyland; Fulcher & Barbara
14 Nov 1776 - William Holyland; Fulcher & Barbara
19 Oct 1777 - Jane Holyland; Fulcher & Barbara

Baptisms - Finsbury, London
15 Dec 1779 - Sophia Holyland; Fulshar & Barbara; salesman; born 25 Nov
24 Mar 1782 - Barbara Eleanor Holyland; Fulshar & Barbara; salesman; born 19 Feb

well done I was only looking in London

[cuffie81]

Just for reference, an earlier thread of Annie's re. the marriage of Noah and Sophia, where BumbleB and jonw65 had found some info.

Marriage 1828, Noah Nicholls and Sophia Holyland
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=825911.0


And a few PubWiki links, which tie in with the family:

Three Tuns, 51 Red Cross street, Cripplegate EC1
https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs/Cripplegate/ThreeTunsRedX.shtml

Savoy Palace, 2 Savoy Street, St Clement Danes WC2
https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs/ClementsDanes/SavoyPalace.shtml

Rising Sun, 55 Brooksby Street, Liverpool Road, Islington N1
https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs/Islington/RisingSun.shtml

[jbml]

It might be worth looking on the pubhistory.com site, too .... they're a tremendous resource for those with licensed victuallers in their tree, and getting better all the time.

The important thing is to feed back to them any information that you have which enables them to identify family links between different publicans ...