Author Topic: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill  (Read 420 times)

Offline meadowbank

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Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« on: Thursday 23 July 20 20:17 BST (UK) »
I am trying to work out the surnames on this Scottish marriage certificate from 1874. The parents of the groom (John Walking) look like John Walking, labourer, and Mary Walking, maiden surname Mannerill.

I cannot find John Walking (father or son) on earlier records, nor can I find a Mary Mannerill, or anything similar, on any records.

There are various challenges: first, the bride and groom are illiterate so have signed their names with a cross; this means they must have told the registrar their names verbally rather than writing them down. Hence these could be phonetic spellings.

Second, I know that John Walking, the groom, was black and was almost certainly foreign. He was born about 1851 and is not in the 1871 census. In the 1881 census his name was recorded as John Walker, born in 'West India' and in 1891 as 'Spain, Naturalised'.  [His wife Sarah Owens was born in Leith, Edinburgh, and I have her family background]

I've tried all sorts of searches on ancestry and findmypast without success.  There is also a parish marriage record in the Catholic church, but it has the same spellings, albeit in Latin.

I would welcome any suggestions! For example, if he was of Spanish/West Indies origin, what surname might result in the phonetic spelling 'Walking'? Something like Joaquin?

And as for his mother, the surname Mannerill is virtually unknown, so what else could it be?


Offline Karen McDonald

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 23 July 20 20:49 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I'm afraid I can't really help, but maybe my musings might ignite a spark somewhere.  ;D

I can't help but see an "e" on the end of the mother's MS, rather than "ll". Doesn't take us any further, though.  ::)

Also, the other thing that occurred to me, if phonetic spellings are to be considered, is that Mainwaring is pronounced Mannering, so maybe her name was actually spelt more along those lines?

Just an idea...

Best regards,
Karen
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Offline goldie61

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 23 July 20 21:56 BST (UK) »
It certainly does look like
'Walking' and 'Mannerill'  on the certificate.

Have you tried maybe something like 'Walken'.
Perhaps put 'Walk*' into whichever search engine you're using - some of them will then bring up any name that starts with 'Walk'.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs


Offline Gadget

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 23 July 20 22:02 BST (UK) »
I agree with Karen - I think MS looks like Mannerile.  The g in Walking is quite long and looks as if it extends down to meet the e.

Gadget

Problem is that the ls are quite loopy so that a second l could have overwritten the g above   :-\
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 July 20 03:12 BST (UK) »

".. I know that John Walking, the groom, was black "    How do you know this?

Witnesses, 1874 marriage record.....John McMAHON   Isabella McMAHON.......who are they?.....are they connected to the OWENS family?

Scotlandspeople births

WALKIN John    1876   South Leith
WALKIN Mary    1878   South Leith   (is this your family?)
WALKIN James   1883  South Leith

Census 1881 - I see John and Sarah WALKER and son John, South Leith.

Census 1891 - I see parents John and Sarah WALKER , sons John and James  at 8 Cable Wynd South Leith. 

I do not see a death for Mary WALKER / WALKIN etc  1878 - 1881  Where is Mary?

Apart from the marriage record, 1874, what documents do you have for BDM events in the lives of the people named here?


Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #5 on: Friday 24 July 20 03:18 BST (UK) »


They have married in the Catholic church, South Leith. 

This family would seem to remain in the same area.

Baptism records would be useful. Catholic baptisms will name godparents, who are often close family members.

That might lead to father John's family.

Offline barryd

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #6 on: Friday 24 July 20 05:13 BST (UK) »
Technically John Walking whatever country he was born in is either British or a Foreigner, West Indies or (the West) of British India he is still British. Well that is it in theory. Anything could happen. 

Offline meadowbank

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #7 on: Friday 24 July 20 09:32 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

In answer to a few queries:

I know that John Walking/Walker b1851 was black through a newspaper report of him in 1884 being convicted of assaulting his wife 'A coloured man named John Walker ...'

However, their son, also John, was well known as a coloured footballer. I have his birth (Walkin) and death (Walker) certificates and loads of info about his life but nothing that sheds any further information on his parents. As a quick summary of his life (albeit with wrong dob) there is a wikipedia page about him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_(footballer,_born_1878)

The marriage witnesses John and Isabella McMahon (both of Redhall, Bonnington). They were married in 1871 as McMahon-Perry but I don't know what their connection was.

Mary Walkin b1878 died same year, registered as Mary Ann Walker.

As for the possible spellings of Walking and Mannerill, I have indeed tried all sorts of alternatives and asterisks without coming up with any leads. I am currently unable to do much with Scotlandspeople as their search rooms are currently closed, and Walker is too common a name for online browsing.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Surnames on marriage certificate: Walking and Mannerill
« Reply #8 on: Friday 24 July 20 10:07 BST (UK) »


"Apart from the marriage record, 1874, what documents do you have for BDM events in the lives of the people named here?

Interesting...for all that John and Sarah would seem to be illiterate, the names for children at birth are consistent....WALKIN.  Who are the informants for these births?

There is not much here to work with, so anything you have is important.

Can you please list all the information on the birth record for son John.  Everything please.

Newspaper account of assault, 1884....what newspaper...and date please?. 

Addresses are useful. what addresses do you see....for anything associated with this family......Census....BDM.......appearance in Court........... anything?